Privileged people calling less privileged people "stupid" doesn't seem to be working...

[not-bono-ever]

2. Now look at the demographic data. 2016 US Presidential Electoral Map If Only [X] Voted

This was white people- many with above average incomes.

So we need a different explanation than upsurge of the marginalised working class....

tax. avoidance of

 

[Brainaddict]

Yep.

I'm sure we'll go through it all again come a Le Pen victory or similar.

I've only seen a handful of people on here calling people stupid - admittedly noticeable because they are annoying. On my fb feed I see a lot more of it, but I feel like this thread was never going to reach the right people.

 

[CRI]

What is to be gained by demographic finger pointing? Where does it lead other than finding a smaller and smaller segment of the population that can be held less and less responsible for Trump?

Agreed - but finger pointing is going on, and it's mostly disappointed white Democrats (from what I've noticed) who are doing it, towards apocryphal non-white non-voters.

I was just pointing out that there's genuine evidence of a whole other group of turkeys voting for Christmas here.

 

[CRI]

One question for those that think it was "because racism".

What are you going to do about it?

Not much. I'm no longer a US Citizen. I live too far away and am too old to do very much.

I support the folks who are trying to prepare for the almighty shit storm that will come, targeted at the most vulnerable folks there, but I can do diddly squat to influence things.

 

[Treacle Toes]

One question for those that think it was "because racism".

What are you going to do about it?

What are you going to do about it?

 

[two sheds]

I've only seen a handful of people on here calling people stupid - admittedly noticeable because they are annoying. On my fb feed I see a lot more of it, but I feel like this thread was never going to reach the right people.

But if a Trump supporter came on here saying the things Trump has said he/she wouldn't last a couple of posts before being called a thick racist cunt. I'm puzzled as to why is it ok here but not when other people do it on, say, Facebook?

 

[Idris2002]

Don't forget how the those of us who didn't like either candidate but preferred Hilary over sexual predator Trump will be criticised as liberals and therefore; stupid.

Anyway; the people have spoken. We must respect the result. All hail the rise of the right.

Great Marx's Ghost, he's got us there.

And to think we'd have got away with it too, if it hadn't been for this meddling krtek.

 

[bimble]

One question for those that think it was "because racism".

What are you going to do about it?

For now, try to argue with people who might want to sweep the extreme racism and hatemongering that Trump campaigned with out of the picture as best as possible, or to think of it as incidental, because no hope of addressing a thing if its existence is denied / smoothed over.

 

[eoin_k]

You can draw no conclusion at all from looking at the entirely blue map top left for instance? Do you think people of colour are generally wealthier than white men ?
View attachment 95246

Black people are less likely to vote for a white, racist, megalomaniac buffoon than white people? Am I right? Do I get a prize?

 

[brogdale]

You tried at least chillers, any wider point or attempts at discussion along the lines of the op is going to be swallowed up for some time yet.

He has, but one problem with the thread title is that the disdain of the liberal elite clearly is working in the interests of capital. Surely rabble-rousing purposely inflames the very sentiments that will draw patronising ire from the liberal elite; it's all part of the bonding/engagement process.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Black people are less likely to vote for a white, racist, megalomaniac buffoon than white people? Am I right? Do I get a prize?

Why would you want a prize for stating the obvious?

 

[Brainaddict]

I think people can't be bothered to look at the exit poll data I posted above. Here are the swings towards Republican since the last election, broken down by ethnic group:

White 1%
Black 7%
Hispanic/Latino 8%
Asian 11%
Other 1%

I'm all for talking about the ingrained racism of white people, but all Trump's racist rhetoric produced a measly 1% swing among white people, smaller than any other named ethnic group. If you have better data please post it up here. But a map of white people voting would, I suspect, have produced a Republican map at every recent election. It's not an explanation of what happened in this one.

 

[bimble]

Black people are less likely to vote for a white, racist, megalomaniac buffoon than white people? Am I right? Do I get a prize?

You win. But also, if low income / economic insecurity is the key it should follow that white men are the most underpriviledged / insecure in US society.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I think people can't be bothered to look at the exit poll data I posted above. Here are the swings towards Republican since the last election, broken down by ethnic group:

White 1%
Black 7%
Hispanic/Latino 8%
Asian 11%
Other 1%

I'm all for talking about the ingrained racism of white people, but all Trump's racist rhetoric produced a measly 1% swing among white people, smaller than any other named ethnic group. If you have better data please post it up here. But a map of white people voting would, I suspect, have produced a Republican map at every recent election. It's not an explanation of what happened in this one.

Do your stats include those who came out to support/vote after not having done so previous elections? That was highlighted as significant throughout the campaign.

 

[Brainaddict]

But if a Trump supporter came on here saying the things Trump has said he/she wouldn't last a couple of posts before being called a thick racist cunt. I'm puzzled as to why is it ok here but not when other people do it on, say, Facebook?

You're confusing two issues. Trump said overtly racist things, so anyone repeating them would be saying overtly racist things and would deservedly be called out as racist. That's a different issue to whether people were stupid to vote Trump (which they may have done for a variety of reasons).

 

[chilango]

What are you going to do about it?

I don't think it (Trump or Brexit or UKIP or whatever...) was (just) about racism/racists.

I will continue to work in my community, in my workplace etc. advocating an alternative to both kneejerk populism and the status quo that is based upon practical examples of solidarity, mutual aid and so forth. Albeit in the most micro of ways.

I will continue to believe, and advocate, that a better world is possible.

I will also continue to believe that the "stupid" or "racist" people voting for Brexit for UKIP for Trump etc. also want a better world. However distorted or damaged a form that desire currently takes. And that its worth looking for common ground, for practical, achievable victories that show that world is possible.

Mostly though, that will consist of talking to, and listening to, the people around me.

 

[Brainaddict]

Do your stats include those who came out to support/vote after not having done for a long time? That was highlighted as significant throughout the campaign.

Well, I guess it includes everyone because of how the stats are put together, but I don't know if I'm aware of the group you're talking about. An increase in Hispanic/Latino voters is the increased turnout I'm aware of. So they would be included in that swing of 8% towards Trump.

 

[inva]

For liberals, there is only one option in an election year, and that is to elect, at whatever cost, whichever Democrat is running. This modus operandi has tethered what remains of the left to a Democratic Party that has long since renounced its commitment to any sort of redistributive vision and imposes a willed amnesia on political debate. True, the last Democrat was really unsatisfying, but this one is better; true, the last Republican didn’t bring destruction on the universe, but this one certainly will. And, of course, each of the “pivotal” Supreme Court justices is four years older than he or she was the last time.

But if the left is tied to a Democratic strategy that, at least since the Clinton Administration, tries to win elections by absorbing much of the right’s social vision and agenda, before long the notion of a political left will have no meaning. For all intents and purposes, that is what has occurred. If the right sets the terms of debate for the Democrats, and the Democrats set the terms of debate for the left, then what can it mean to be on the political left? The terms “left” and “progressive” — and in practical usage the latter is only a milquetoast version of the former — now signify a cultural sensibility rather than a reasoned critique of the existing social order. Because only the right proceeds from a clear, practical utopian vision, “left” has come to mean little more than “not right.”

Finally, admitting our absolute impotence can be politically liberating; acknowledging that as a left we have no influence on who gets nominated or elected, or what they do in office, should reduce the frenzied self-delusion that rivets attention to the quadrennial, biennial, and now seemingly permanent horse races. It is long past time for us to begin again to approach leftist critique and strategy by determining what our social and governmental priorities should be and focusing our attention on building the kind of popular movement capable of realizing that vision.

quoted from his piece in Harper's Magazine from 2014 link
I'm certain it's been posted on here before but worth a read for anyone who hasn't already.

e2a I thought he had a book coming out on this subject but it seems to have disappeared

 

[ska invita]

You tried at least chillers, any wider point or attempts at discussion along the lines of the op is going to be swallowed up for some time yet.

tbf it seems to me it is being discussed above, in that the starting point in the OP is being at least partly challenged by some, using voting stats, that it was in fact the most privileged who voted Trump in

 

[Manter]

The figures are too crude to draw any conclusions either way, sorry. I don't think they give you enough detail to see how much the lower income vote share is skewed by the black and hispanic vote being so strongly Clinton. Have you seen any white voter/low income breakdowns?

This is exit poll data I think- so the more detailed stuff will come a bit later. Nate Silver's site has some interesting scraps but they have basically just posted 'shit, we're going to bed'! 2016 Election Night

 

[eoin_k]

Why would you want a prize for stating the obvious?

I've tried making a more substantive points to bimble but this was the only one that got a reply.

 

[andysays]

tbf it seems to me it is being discussed above, in that the starting point in the OP is being at least partly challenged by some, using voting stats, that it was in fact the most privileged who voted Trump in

Once again, I think there is confusion between two different things.

As a general rule across all elections, "more privileged" people (however exactly we define that) are more likely to vote Republican, and "less privileged" people are more likely to vote Democrat.

That general rule hasn't changed, but the most significant change from 2012 to 2016, the one which has led to a Trump/Republican victory rather than the Obama/Democrat victory, is that there's been a growth in the numbers of less privileged people voting for Trump/against Clinton (and I suggest that last bit is more significant than many are acknowledging), whereas the number of more privileged people voting Republican hasn't changed nearly so much.

That's quite different than saying that all or even most of Trump's support comes from the less privileged - we're talking about relative numbers rather than absolutes.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

tbf it seems to me it is being discussed above, in that the starting point in the OP is being at least partly challenged by some, using voting stats, that it was in fact the most privileged who voted Trump in

The starting point on this thread has to be to analyse its purposely provocative title. To what extent are those doing what the OP suggests right in their analysis - whether of trump or of brexit?

My rather depressing analysis of Trump would include racist white people seeing their privilege wrt black, latino and other people evaporating and not liking it. Seeing themselves sink in the social scale, but not to the bottom, far from it - meaning that they still consider there is something more to lose. The kind of people who are angry about Obamacare, for instance, because it has seen their insurance premiums go up while those lower in the social scale than them appear to be getting something for nothing, without having had to work for it like they have.

 

[butchersapron]

tbf it seems to me it is being discussed above, in that the starting point in the OP is being at least partly challenged by some, using voting stats, that it was in fact the most privileged who voted Trump in

That's really not what it's about though.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Anyone who wants to get elected seriously needs to ditch any luvvie support that's for sure. Even Bruce couldn't swing it.

Some really nauseating crap has come from people like Joss Whedon, Sarah SiIverman an Louis CK in this campaign. Everything Bruce Springsteen does is nauseating though so we'll ignore him.

 

[DotCommunist]

maybe de niro will have that fight with trump now

 

[Jeff Robinson]

My rather depressing analysis of Trump would include racist white people seeing their privilege wrt black, latino and other people evaporating and not liking it. Seeing themselves sink in the social scale, but not to the bottom, far from it - meaning that they still consider there is something more to lose. The kind of people who are angry about Obamacare, for instance, because it has seen their insurance premiums go up while those lower in the social scale than them appear to be getting something for nothing, without having had to work for it like they have.

And plenty of misogynists too. Probably the majority of Trumpeters violently hate women.

 

[CrabbedOne]

You can over analyse these things. Trump ran a very unconventional campaign that generated considerable enthusiasm. It was a often childish, conspiracy touting entertainment jumping from controversy to controversy. The smart money thought him doomed but the polls had been up and down like a whore's draws. It turns out it was good enough warts and all.

Clinton did things by the numbers but has been mired in petty scandals by the GOP for decades. I have trouble remembering what her policies were. In fact what I remember is how Trump presented them. I did think Clinton was insincere in some of the post-Bernie positions she assumed.

She had a pretty poor record as Secretary of State whereas Trump is an unknown politically. His argument that she's had thirty years in politics and done nothing much to brag about had purchase. A lot of Americans are simply convinced if things were run like a corporation DC might not be the Death Star of corruption they see it as. They don't get that Trump's real estate business provides almost no relevant experience beyond marketing dodgy constructions to gullible people.

Trump is deeply flawed probably the only one of the last few Republican primary candidates Hillary could beat and with all his vulnerabilities she just wasn't up to the job.

 

[Rob Ray]

NB// based on a voting-age potential electorate of 225,778,000, and projected turnout of 135,000,000, this year's turnout would be a little under 60%, higher than usual but not extremely so. Of the 40% who didn't, the vast majority are, as usual, from poorer socio-economic backgrounds.

Imv all other calculations and analysis should stem from this. When you talk about X percentage of working class people turning to Trump for answers for example, what it actually means is X percentage of working class people who could vote, who felt the system was worth voting in, turned to Trump as the only viable candidate other than Clinton.

 

[ska invita]

going back to this table....i find it amazing that 35% of US voters earn $100,000+++ a year...and 66% earn $50k++++...and 85% earn $30k++++
Am i reading that right? If so Americans are a lot wealthier on average than I imagined...