Privileged people calling less privileged people "stupid" doesn't seem to be working...
- Thread starter chilango
- Start date
likesfish
You can't park here sir
exactly if the choice is between more of the same but not in a terribly attractive package or sod the lot of you regardless of how much damage it does sod the lot of you will win.
especially when the status quo is a bunch of smartly packaged millionaires telling how we are all in this together
The left are not even in the argument the ideas are old fashioned and don't work.
especially when the status quo is a bunch of smartly packaged millionaires telling how we are all in this together
The left are not even in the argument the ideas are old fashioned and don't work.
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
May keeps on saying Brexit means Brexit when it was defined with a great deal of creative ambiguity by Leave so as snag as many voters as possible. She talks hard Brexit but really does not want to reveal what exactly she'll be trying to get out of the EU.
We've got an even better puzzler now. Did The Donald really mean the sometimes contradictory platform Trump ran on? Will he lock her up? Will he build the wall and will Mexico pay? Will he turn NATO into a protection racket? Is NAFTA really going to be in shreds? Will he deport the 11 million illegals? Is he going to start a trade war with China? Is he going to make nice with Russia? Is he going to slash elite taxes and up public spending? The man is a bullshit factory whose word is wind. He doesn't listen to advice, he barely reads, he's just got a huge pat on the back for being The Donald. As Bashar Assad observed US Presidents most often enter office saying one thing then do another. Where will The Donald's whims take him?
And I tend to be suspicious that an awful lot of competence to navigate a something as complex as a Brexit is simply lacking in London. They really don't know what they are doing. They evidently really didn't understand how trade deals work in any detail. With Trump its not just trade but a full spectrum lack of experience. He's an able marketing man whose sold America on his deal making ability that mostly rests on a bumpy career flipping high end real estate to dumb rich people. For instance he says he has a plan to destroy IS but its top secret and you know he's just unprepared, empty headily planning to wing it.
We've got an even better puzzler now. Did The Donald really mean the sometimes contradictory platform Trump ran on? Will he lock her up? Will he build the wall and will Mexico pay? Will he turn NATO into a protection racket? Is NAFTA really going to be in shreds? Will he deport the 11 million illegals? Is he going to start a trade war with China? Is he going to make nice with Russia? Is he going to slash elite taxes and up public spending? The man is a bullshit factory whose word is wind. He doesn't listen to advice, he barely reads, he's just got a huge pat on the back for being The Donald. As Bashar Assad observed US Presidents most often enter office saying one thing then do another. Where will The Donald's whims take him?
And I tend to be suspicious that an awful lot of competence to navigate a something as complex as a Brexit is simply lacking in London. They really don't know what they are doing. They evidently really didn't understand how trade deals work in any detail. With Trump its not just trade but a full spectrum lack of experience. He's an able marketing man whose sold America on his deal making ability that mostly rests on a bumpy career flipping high end real estate to dumb rich people. For instance he says he has a plan to destroy IS but its top secret and you know he's just unprepared, empty headily planning to wing it.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
not sure he needs to
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh. they don't know what they're doing. i wouldn't trust the cabinet to successfully organise revelry in a brewery.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
There's action all the time it's an ongoing not a 4 year cycle.
He is quite clearly not a son of the soil neither he nor anyone around him has lived any part of the life of a poor white first hand. In the past 30 years of pain for the American worker he became richer and richer.
Clearly it worked to an extent he secured Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Michigan. His speeches did promise: 'We're going to get the mines back to work'. His son could post "After visiting the rust belt the last week I have seen the terrible side effects of NAFTA. We must renegotiate our failed trade deals! #MAGA" But I believe there was something jarring about his performance which in part explains feelings of overwhelming revulsion about the election campaign.
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
Brits in not entirely up our own bottom shock.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Based on the false premise that it's possible to disentangle anti-immigration sentiment from precarious economic conditions. They don't go hand in hand 100% but it isn't far off.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Oh yeah, it's patently obvious that this was a campaign railing against the effects of processes that have enriched and empowered the protagonist; capital's political wing continuing its ideological 'transvestism'.
bimble
floofy
Wow. You think its impossible and not worth trying even? Look at the stats for what Trump supporters said was important to them - it was not inequality or the economy, it was immigration and terrorists. Why?
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
I think it's disgusting and wholly to be condemned but I believe it is in part a byproduct. I also don't fully see how the Democrat Clinton-Kaine programme was 'less racist' than Trump. Take Hilary's 30 year record of racism - if this was Trump's record it would be regarded as outrageous racism, as it is 'liberal' it is merely a foible or two.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Do you really think that immigration concerns are usually held, or even presented, in isolation from economic anxiety or hardship?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
No it's not. It deals with that by also looking at income correlations. The study claims to have found a factor that diverges markedly from economic conditions, and so cannot be attributed to them.
You might dispute the interpretation, but it doesn't start from that as a premise - rather, it claims to be able to demonstrate it from the data.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
and this is probably why Hispanic and black voters turned out in far lower numbers for Clinton than they did Obama.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Was it? I've read that it was lower percentage wise than 2008 and 2012.
bimble
floofy
No they are usually bundled up together, of course.
Would you also say that economic anxiety explains why 87% of Trump voters said they were 'not at all bothered' by his treatment of women?
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
I can't. That boggles my mind.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Which ones? Which left? Where?
bimble
floofy
I'd suggest you have to re-think your explanation for the racism / focus on immigrants and terrorists too in that case, that it is not as inevitable and economic as you suppose.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
I don't think it's inevitable at all, the fact that it wasn't at any point inevitable is why I was so against Clinton's candidacy.
Yossarian
⏭️
Record turnout in early voting anyway, and in California, not that it would have made a lot of difference there.
Latino voter turnout could break records in California
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
"Why" are racism and immigration such hot topics though, is the point. Neither come from nowhere, they're not simple cultural phenomena, they're built from something. What is that something? The answer can't be separated from the economic landscape.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Dunno about 'usually', but I can give you an anecdotal example. My mum and dad, to my surprise, both voted brexit. They named concern over immigration levels as part of the reason. They live in a bit of the country where there are very few immigrants. They're retired and on a fixed income. Their pension is decent - dad had an old-fashioned final-salary one. They are not rich, but have neither anxiety nor hardship economically.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
This to a small degree explains the liberal wing of capital's rage against Trump - one of their own, who was very pro-Clinton letting the cat out of the bag -- that 30 years of hard neoliberalism including Obama made things worse for most Americans.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Their views are still built from the social norms they live within though, and those are built from the experiences of their friends, family, the kid who works down the shop who can't afford a house, newspapers and media which follow and interpret what the masses want to see.
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