Privileged people calling less privileged people "stupid" doesn't seem to be working...

[bimble]

They are not rich, but have neither anxiety nor hardship economically.

Likewise my auntie in Florida is by no means in economic anxiety or hardship and she is definitely a racist. She stayed home at the last minute instead of voting Trump.

 

[Brainaddict]

Isn't there a bit of a problem with the narrative that this Trump victory is all about the racists? Presumably those who would vote primarily on their racist views (let's call them the committed racists) turned out in force in the last two elections to vote Republican against the foreign arab guy, no? So if they did, it raises the question, who voted for Trump on top of those racists?

 

[sihhi]

Dunno about 'usually', but I can give you an anecdotal example. My mum and dad, to my surprise, both voted brexit. They named concern over immigration levels as part of the reason. They live in a bit of the country where there are very few immigrants. They're retired and on a fixed income. Their pension is decent - dad had an old-fashioned final-salary one. They are not rich, but have neither anxiety nor hardship economically.

Good for them, but what can that tell us about the way that American citizens perceived undocumented immigration as unfair attempt to displace them from already scarce jobs?

 

[killer b]

No they are usually bundled up together, of course.
Would you also say that economic anxiety explains why 87% of Trump voters said they were 'not at all bothered' by his treatment of women?

You've misread the table. 87% of Trump voters aren't not at all bothered. What it saus is, Of the people who said they weren't bothered, 87% voted trump.

 

[eoin_k]

immiseration.
the exit poll says that the lowest income people voted Clinton, I think that is worth a moments pause before the narrative gets fixed.

You keep fixating on these statistics but they show that Clinton secured just over fifty per cent of the vote from this segment of the electorate, hardly a ringing endorsement from what should be her base. Trump meanwhile got over forty per cent of this segment of the vote. Given how the politics of race and class intersect in America he seems to have done pretty well among white blue collar Americans. His results in swing states in the American rust belt like Michigan and Pennsylvania suggests as much. This was once part of the Democrats heartland, which they abandoned by not providing an alternative to de-iundustrialisation, a failure that now leaves space for Trump to do so.

Presumable some the twenty per cent of non-white voters who backed him, including almost one-in-three Latinos, are also working class. If you look at the source of your statistics they suggest that his narrow victory was swung by a significant minority who voted for change, despite reservations about his misogyny, anti-immigrant rhetoric, and competency. So yes, Trump has got a base among white privileged Americans - most white, male, college graduates among them - but his election was one by being able to tap into a constituency which has been immiserated.

 

[killer b]

16% of people surveyed weren't at all bothered, of whom 87% vote trump - so about 13% of trump voters weren't at all bothered.

 

[J Ed]

You've misread the table. 87% of Trump voters aren't not at all bothered. What it saus is, Of the people who said they weren't bothered, 87% voted trump.

Thanks for this, I thought that it was an unlikely statistic.

 

[butchersapron]

What is the material basis for racism then? Or does it not have one and is instead just a series of wrong individual choices conjured up only from the head of the particular racist?

And before someone whines 'the media', I'm talking about the material basis. We can easily enough identify or recognise the material basis of the birth of Atlantic racism, where is the basis now then?

Please don't anyone tell me on here, on a politics forum, that they think it's really just a collection of individual prejudices.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Good for them, but what can that tell us about the way that American citizens perceived undocumented immigration as unfair attempt to displace them from already scarce jobs?

Don't know, except that the brexit vote and the trump vote are certainly linked phenomena, imo. The point I was responding to had to do with the study bimble linked to and an interpretation of that - pointing to the idea that there are other cultural values that are more important determining factors wrt voting brexit/trump.

 

[krtek a houby]

...non-white ...

 

[seventh bullet]

Going to try that one again?

 

[krtek a houby]

Going to try that one again?

It's a biased term. It's very combatative.

 

[andysays]

No they are usually bundled up together, of course.
Would you also say that economic anxiety explains why 87% of Trump voters said they were 'not at all bothered' by his treatment of women?

Once again, figures are being misread/misunderstood.

The table you posted says that 87% of those who said they were 'not at all bothered' by Trump's treatment of women voted for him, not the other way around

ETA as killer b has already pointed out...

 

[Orang Utan]

It's very combatative.

tbf, you are very combatitive

 

[eoin_k]

What are you trying to imply Krtek? It's the category the pollsters used to group all respondents who didn't identify as 'white'. It also seems relevant to challenging the assumption that his supporters are all white racists.

For future reference I've got you on ignore, so you should get someone else to give me a heads up if you need a direct response. (I only clicked on 'Show Ignored Content' because seventh bullet 's post didn't make sense.)

 

[CRI]

The least privileged group of all in the US - poor black people - voted overwhelmingly against Trump.

This^ (from CNN )

Yes, I suspect that a large part of the picture that we are going to see is the fact that black voters simply did not turn out for Clinton in the same way that they did for Obama and who can blame them. There are other factors at play of course, like voter suppression.

I wonder how effective the Trump campaign's facebook targeting of voters will be seen to be in the end, it seems to me like he used this very effectively in much the same way as the Tories did in 2015.

Not surprised but still sick of posts from white folks saying result was (at least partly) down to African Americans not turning out to vote for Clinton. It plays into the "lazy black people" trope for starters, and minimalises the VERY really efforts at voter suppression aimed at minority ethnic voters - both institutionally (cutting poling places, cutting hours, writing people off electoral roles, ID requirements, etc.) and individually (white men with guns and racist slogan tee shirts standing outside polling places, threats on social media, etc.)

Those Black folks who DID vote, did so overwhelmingly for Clinton. Non white voters with and without degrees backed Clinton like 3 to 1. Couldn't find a breakdown by income in the CNN report.

If you want to point a finger, just ask for a minute why more than half of white women voted for Trump, clearly not bothered by his overt sexism, admission of using sexual violence and the queue of women citing his sexual harassment and abuse of them.

I remain convinced that the 'left behind' trope is far less credible than the notion of a (nostalgic) "remember better times" cohort. As UKIP spoke to those who remembered the benefits deriving from the period of post-war consensus/system competition, the exit data suggests that Trump spoke to those who used to feel better off than immigrants/blacks/the underclass.

Vote Labour/Clinton to keep out the BNP/Trump.

I remember when I first started posting on U75 some posters criticising that tactic, that sure it probably would work in the short term but sooner or later it was going to run out of steam and fail. Well it has/is and the consequences aren't good.

And yet many still persist in it.

Although Illinois backed Clinton, I'm pretty sure that will show up mostly as Cook County (Chicago) and surrounding areas, East St Louis and a few scattered urban areas with significant non-white populations. Where I come from - rural, working class "Sundown County" in the South of the State, I'd wager like 90% or more voted Trump. My family's lived there since the early 19th century. My brother and sister still live there and for the first time ever, said they've felt unable to put up signs, let alone declare support for anyone but Trump. My parents must be spinning in their graves.

A few of my former neighbours will try and disguise their motivation by saying they didn't agree with this or that about Clinton, but most will be full throated in saying why they supported Trump - not in spite of but BECAUSE of his racist views. They've always held these views, as have their parents, grandparents, etc. They're overjoyed to have a leader and congress that does as well and there will be no more pretending they don't see themselves as the master race.

When people whine about this being down to the disaffected working class (either taking a right turn to support Trump or a left turn behind Bernie and unwilling to switch to Clinton because "principles,") what they really mean is the WHITE working class. Same thing with Brexit.

America never really resolved its endemic racism. It's kept a lid on it sometimes better than other times. Now the lid's been blown off.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Half the fucking Democratic campaign was just rich white people and a handful of rich ethnic minorities saying 'fucking white ppl smdh' over and over on twitter. People who are so inept to see that that was not a winning strategy will never learn from their mistakes.

Funny thing is like these people banging on about diversity and shit never ever talk about black, brown and latino proles. i can't take these fakes seriously.

i legit was confused when i encountered the same brand of UK intersectionalist, was totally confused as to why on earth they were so obsessed with 'ZOMG white people' as opposed to white supremacy and whiteness, which is different imho...

 

[Manter]

1. Look at the income line in this. Trump is not privilege vs unprivileged
Election 2016: Exit Polls

 

[krtek a houby]

What are you trying to imply Krtek? It's the category the pollsters used to group all respondents who didn't identify as 'white'. It also seems relevant to challenging the assumption that his supporters are all white racists.

For future reference I've got you on ignore, so you should get someone else to give me a heads up if you need a direct response. (I only clicked on 'Show Ignored Content' because seventh bullet 's post didn't make sense.)

I'm implying that the term comes across as being white is some kind of default setting or something other people aspire to. I feel that it's divisive and it makes me feel uncomfortable. I think the pollsters need to come up with a more acceptable term. I'm sure I'm not the only person who bridles when they see the term.

 

[Manter]

2. Now look at the demographic data. 2016 US Presidential Electoral Map If Only [X] Voted

This was white people- many with above average incomes.

So we need a different explanation than upsurge of the marginalised working class....

 

[bimble]

16% of people surveyed weren't at all bothered, of whom 87% vote trump - so about 13% of trump voters weren't at all bothered.

Yes, you're totally right, I misread it. Which has cheered me up quite a lot.

 

[butchersapron]

You tried at least chillers, any wider point or attempts at discussion along the lines of the op is going to be swallowed up for some time yet.

 

[killer b]

2. Now look at the demographic data. 2016 US Presidential Electoral Map If Only [X] Voted

This was white people- many with above average incomes.

So we need a different explanation than upsurge of the marginalised working class....

The figures are too crude to draw any conclusions either way, sorry. I don't think they give you enough detail to see how much the lower income vote share is skewed by the black and hispanic vote being so strongly Clinton. Have you seen any white voter/low income breakdowns?

 

[Brainaddict]

2. Now look at the demographic data. 2016 US Presidential Electoral Map If Only [X] Voted

This was white people- many with above average incomes.

So we need a different explanation than upsurge of the marginalised working class....

I posted elsewhere, but this shows the change in voter groups in the right hand column: Election 2016: Exit Polls

If we want to know what effect Trump has had (as opposed to some other Republican) then comparing to previous elections is one way to do that. There was a significant swing among poorer, black, Latino and Asian voters towards Trump in this election. You are right about the absolute numbers but that is not the full story.

 

[bimble]

The figures are too crude to draw any conclusions either way, sorry. I don't think they give you enough detail to see how much the lower income vote share is skewed by the black and hispanic vote being so strongly Clinton. Have you seen any white voter/low income breakdowns?

You can draw no conclusion at all from looking at the entirely blue map top left for instance? Do you think people of colour are generally wealthier than white men ?

 

[chilango]

You tried at least chillers, any wider point or attempts at discussion along the lines of the op is going to be swallowed up for some time yet.

Yep.

I'm sure we'll go through it all again come a Le Pen victory or similar.

 

[CRI]

2. Now look at the demographic data. 2016 US Presidential Electoral Map If Only [X] Voted

This was white people- many with above average incomes.

So we need a different explanation than upsurge of the marginalised working class....

This, absolutely this.

But I already know what the explanation is and don't give a shit if white folk anywhere feel "uncomfortable" by labelling. Fuck em. It. was. about. race.

And I was right about voting patterns in Illinois. It was actually 85% of my old county that voted Trump, not 90% so hoo rah :/

 

[Rob Ray]

Oh are we at the "look at these rushed polling data graphics which are usually deeply partisan and always ignore little things like turnout, which hasn't topped 60% since 1968" bit of the cycle already? Usually takes longer.

 

[eoin_k]

... If you want to point a finger, just ask for a minute why more than half of white women voted for Trump...

What is to be gained by demographic finger pointing? Where does it lead other than finding a smaller and smaller segment of the population that can be held less and less responsible for Trump?

 

[chilango]

One question for those that think it was "because racism".

What are you going to do about it?