bimble
floofy
immiseration.
the exit poll says that the lowest income people voted Clinton, I think that is worth a moments pause before the narrative gets fixed.
Privileged people calling less privileged people "stupid" doesn't seem to be working...
- Thread starter chilango
- Start date
the exit poll says that the lowest income people voted Clinton, I think that is worth a moments pause before the narrative gets fixed.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
other forms of despair are available
rubbershoes
not the only raver in the village
Is "privileged" a code word for educated?
billy_bob
Air of bewilderment model's own
I think the racism (which yes, is undeniably far more explicit and hard to dismiss in the Trump trajectory than in Brexit) is largely a key theme because it's such an excellent short cut to that revolt against 'liberals'. That's not the same as saying 'it's not their fault they're racist', though I don't think it's patronising to say that any group of people, elites included, can be induced to racism quite readily in the 'right' circumstances. It's so much easier than explaining what neoliberalism's really done with your job prospects to instead simply identify the person they've given your job to, and let human nature take its course.
I think both Leave and the Trump campaign could still have been successful without a hint of racism about them, because the anger at the way things are isn't really about race. (If that's equivalent to saying 'they can't help being racist', so be it). But race has proven a great vehicle for this kind of anger so many times before, so it's pretty hard to resist.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
"Privileged people calling less privileged people "stupid" doesn't seem to be working..."
It's working a treat for the privileged.
The stupid people are voting in the people who are going to make the privileged even more privileged and the less privileged even less privileged.
The stupid are earning their label.
It's working a treat for the privileged.
The stupid people are voting in the people who are going to make the privileged even more privileged and the less privileged even less privileged.
The stupid are earning their label.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
On form today.
mauvais
on reddit or something
I didn't intend to suggest that the OP himself is celebrating the outcome. However I do think more broadly that it will be used as a positive by many - it's the loop we've been around with Brexit, albeit in different circumstances as described.
Obviously the strategy isn't working. But what's the answer? Because from here it looks like the natural route from this kind of argument is less opposing elitism and more trying to appease or tolerate stupidity and racism. It's deeply uncomfortable whichever way you tackle it.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Thanks for this. Can you provide the link to the source please?
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Privileged people unconvincingly redefining themselves as less privileged than less privileged people definitely doesn't work either.
billy_bob
Air of bewilderment model's own
"We give you the right to vote, and this is how you repay us? By voting for someone other than us? You scum!"
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
You mean the exit polls that predicted the wrong result? But even if those figures are accurate, without previous years data to compare against they don't tell us how if there has been movement. Clinton may win among those with <$50,000 but win with a much lower % than previous democrats. Trump doesn't have to win a majority of poorer voters for there to have been enough movement among such voters to give him a win.
The fact that Clinton could not win democratic strongholds like Michigan and Wisconsin suggests that there's been movement to Trump among traditional democrat working class voters in these states (though without having a further breakdown and knowledge of the turnout it's hard to be sure exactly what happened).
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bimble
floofy
2016 election results: National Exit polls
(quite a few interesting graphs in there but as people above have said, none of the samples is huge and information on turnout will help a lot when it comes.)
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chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Who is lauding it as a victory?
Its a defeat.
But its not the defeat for Clinton we should be worried about.
Its the defeat (or failure) of "the left" to provide the vehicle for an utterly predictable revolt that we should be concerned about.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
"cause I want to talk about how we might apply any lessons learnt to what we do.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
If so, it might also be worth thinking about why those perhaps not on the lowest income might feel so hard done by.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I see it as perfectly possible to not tolerate racism while at the same time not writing off millions and millions of people as thick/racists. I mean last night we had a someone on here calling (not for the first time) anyone who was critical of Clinton apologists for racism, you don't think that attitude might not be part of the reason why people didn't vote for Clinton?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
never better
Idaho
blah blah blah
Anti establishment left leaning politicians won't have any money backing or political party support and will be attacked in the media. Right wing mavericks can dress up in anti establishment colours , can garner media and corporate support . Our candidates will be pre-selected by the media and corporate interests.
bimble
floofy
I hope that time will also be found to think about reasons why an overtly racist mysogenistic campaign won it.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Agreed. But you won't attract many people who went for Brexit or Trump by endlessly trashing the soft left. Many people already hate the left as it is. Need to give them a reason why progressive politics is for them. Means we can't have snobbery, but we still can't tolerate racism or misogyny.
We are in a bind. Some people seem to like Brexit/Trump threatening the status quo. Probably because it's a fake threat deep down. They don't like Corbyn doing so to the same degree.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Hmmm, I have no idea...
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
I'm responding to the title and it wasn't at you
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
No. Unless you think women, people of colour and LGBT people don't get educated
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This is wrong, but just so we can be clear, you 're saying that there is or there isn't a connection between material conditions and politics?
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