Plane crashes onto A27 at Shoreham Air Show
- Thread starter Indeliblelink
- Start date
Music festivals can be dangerous. i once attended a massive REM stadium concert (i know), and on the row behind us were two people openly having sexual relations. i think they were a bit tanked. A mini brawl broke out in the ensuing dispute about the wisdom of sexual cavorting in a public place.
i've never seen such behaviour at folk festivals, which are characterised by people who always behave responsibly, being kind and gentle towards one another, often holding hands and dancing around in circles whilst wearing very tasteful and flowing garments made of calico fabrics of the finest quality.
i've never seen such behaviour at folk festivals, which are characterised by people who always behave responsibly, being kind and gentle towards one another, often holding hands and dancing around in circles whilst wearing very tasteful and flowing garments made of calico fabrics of the finest quality.
I was going to say something about not understanding why people go to air shows. I don't like the military and I can't imagine ever wanting to watch anything involving the military. I wouldn't go to an air show if you paid me.
At the same time, we often get RAF jets flying over here and when they do I always get a feeling of being in some way uplifted. I also was once stood outside my house when two HUGE planes that I assumed were bombers from their size and appearance flew over. They were so low and they seemed to fly overhead in slow motion just above the trees and our roof. I can still remember the feeling of something magnificent happening before my eyes.
Weird or what.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
I was going to say something about not understanding why people go to air shows. I don't like the military and I can't imagine ever wanting to watch anything involving the military. I wouldn't go to an air show if you paid me.
At the same time, we often get RAF jets flying over here and when they do I always get a feeling of being in some way uplifted. I also was once stood outside my house when two HUGE planes that I assumed were bombers from their size and appearance flew over. They were so low and they seemed to fly overhead in slow motion just above the trees and our roof. I can still remember the feeling of something magnificent happening before my eyes.
Weird or what.
I can appreciate a good piece of engineering, even if it's a weapon of war. There's a certain kind of beauty to human artifice that one doesn't find anywhere else in nature, as pretty as it can be.
Each to their own but for some of us living beings including humans far surpass any "human artifice" even if it may be a good piece of engineering.
As a kid i had an air pistol made by Webley. It was a fantastic piece of engineering, with a pivoting barrel atop another spring containing cylinder which provided the energy to propelled the pellet in a forward direction once the trigger mechanism had been actuated. Happiness is a warm gun as they used to say (until the hippies took over the world).
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I hardly think its a stretch to call an airshow of military aircraft militaristic. Of course it bloody is. If you like going to look at big shiny death machines performing though it doesn't mean you support the bombing of dresden or want to join the SAS. All the fucking tax money wasted on the bastard things, well seeing them prat about at silverstone or some airfield is all the value you'll ever get back from them.
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
mauvais
on reddit or something
In your opinion. I've been at even small festivals where people have OD'd and died, so clearly festivals equal drug abuse which society can do without, so let's get rid of those. Of course this is Mary Whitehouse grade nonsense but so are the numpties calling for total bans of airshows before the dust even settles.
Conversely airshows used to be significant in showcasing engineering and inspiring young people to get involved in the aeronautical industry, the British success of which produced a load of jobs, technical skills and a significant contribution to the economy. Nowadays it's greatly diminished in favour of the service industry and are we any better for it? Mmmhmm.
I think it's a dubious arrangement any time there's a significant risk to non-participants, but you have to define what significant risk means. Is it one incident in 50 years, and is the detail of one arrangement enough to damn them all? Probably not on either count.
There's a risk to non-participants from all aviation, but it's generally accepted in the name of convenience and utility. Even that's not simple though. If a commercial aircraft crashes into someone's car then does the fact it was such a venture of utility make it better than one that was put on purely for entertainment? What about the fact it was for profit?
No simple answers here, but the people calling for immediate bans without any domain knowledge strike me as the kind of people that shouldn't ever be taken seriously.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
These deaths were completely avoidable and the event in itself plays a non-crucial role in people's lives. Clubs, pubs, music concerts and festivals are intrinsic parts of British life. People taking risks with their own lives with drugs and alcohol not the same as being randomly burnt to death in your car when driving home. Who gives a shit if people aren't allowed to fly loop-the-loops over towns and villages anymore though? Utterly pointless deaths caused yesterday. Have airshows where planes do fly-bys and do low risk things by any means, but what the fuck is a plane doing pulling that kind of dodgy manoeuvre anywhere near where people are?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I'm not a fighter pilot but I know you always lose height between the start and finish point of a loop like that, so you have to start the manuevure at a decent altitude or something like this happens.
bi0boy
Power User
Attendees to these event are aware of the risks.
No one attending this air show died.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
And people continue to buy Mercedes Benz vehicles
mauvais
on reddit or something
Oh? What else will the Ministry of Favelado deem pointless and non-crucial?
Driving a car, for instance, is avoidable and non-crucial. And in doing so, no matter how hard you try, you might well kill someone who has no say in the matter and hasn't even opted in to the same activity themselves. The only remedy is Luddism but even that won't protect you.
And so it is with everything. Someone might get crushed to death at a festival, and is that more acceptable because they were a participant? Shall we ban fireworks, for instance? What's your equation for this?
As much as you might want them, there are no clear black and white delineations when considering risk, utility, social value, opt-in and all the rest.
Millions of people would not miss air shows if they were banned completely, and i'd be amongst them. But it is obvious that simple legislative intervention could be designed to make airshows far safer than they currently appear to be, and that is probably the preferred option, simply because significant numbers of petrol heads exist and i suppose they have to be catered for, even if their forms of 'entertainment' are dubious.
Generally speaking, the military have too much influence over these matters. In addition to these ridiculous cockwaving airshows, they continue to (controversially) practice low level flying in some areas of population, which, if we occupied a sane world, should also become subject to legislative control.
The problem is that the sane world remains some way off, and we continue to live in a complete asylum, one which is at least partly controlled by militaristic gits, many of whom know little of the value of human well being and decency, and much about the ability to blow us all to atoms when their economic interests are threatened.
It is surely correct that the main guiding principle in all these issues should be 'taking the toys from the boys'.
Generally speaking, the military have too much influence over these matters. In addition to these ridiculous cockwaving airshows, they continue to (controversially) practice low level flying in some areas of population, which, if we occupied a sane world, should also become subject to legislative control.
The problem is that the sane world remains some way off, and we continue to live in a complete asylum, one which is at least partly controlled by militaristic gits, many of whom know little of the value of human well being and decency, and much about the ability to blow us all to atoms when their economic interests are threatened.
It is surely correct that the main guiding principle in all these issues should be 'taking the toys from the boys'.
pesh
Well-Known Member
i'm not bothered about seeing them banned, but if they are going to continue i'd rather they planned them so if the pilot does fuck up his loop the loop the flaming wreckage lands on the spectators rather than a bunch of locals on their way to the shops.
mauvais
on reddit or something
No, that's your personal, irrelevant contempt for the military dressed up as a public safety issue.
What is wrong with having contempt for the military?
A healthy attitude if there ever was one and it certainly beats US style hero worship for the military (which seems to be on the increase in Britain) or geeky drooling over machines of war as the "beauty to human artifice". Try telling the victims of these technological terrors that they are beautiful.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
You don't need to be a ministry to have basic common sense.
Driving cars is an intrisic part of life for the majority of the adult population. So it gets to stay.
Music festivals need to be safe and regulated, but again music is so ingrained in cultural life that we collectively accept the risks they may present. Kids aren't allowed to buy fireworks but adults are, so they choose the risk.
Loop-the-loops over populated areas - utterly pointless so get rid. What the FUCK was a plane doing pulling this kind of stunt anywhere near people?
You can have airshows, but do your daft stunts over the Channel. Near towns, do normal flights. It's not a radical proposal is it? Airshows are of virtually zero cultural value and zero usefulness and of interest to a minority of the population, unlike cars and music.
Complicate the argument all you like but these deaths were utterly unnecessary and have nothing to do with everyday activities that most people participate in.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Sure, just as soon as I've asked the trainspotters to do the same thing for the victims of the Hatfield rail crash.
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...sh-age-of-plane-not-be-to-blame-expert-claims
Expert bloke said: “Airshows are the biggest spectator sport in this country – more people go live to airshows than go to football."
So not exactly a minority interest as some would make out.
Expert bloke said: “Airshows are the biggest spectator sport in this country – more people go live to airshows than go to football."
So not exactly a minority interest as some would make out.
mauvais
on reddit or something
What I recognise is your preexisting political rhetoric dressed up as concern for the public, which is more a little cheap given the circumstances. It's also apparently clueless; for instance your implication that low level military flying (no apparent UK public safety issue) is somehow unaddressed by legislation.
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