Air traffic control failure?

[kabbes]

Whether the refund came via a credit card or some other means is surely irrelevant. The material position is that you've been given money from your employer ostensibly for the reimbursement of an expense, but there was actually no such expense and you've simply trousered the funds for personal gain with the intention of defrauding your employer and avoiding income tax.

If it's a one-off occurrence you could probably feign ignorance but if you're in the habit of doing it you could be in trouble.

Yes, there’s no doubt that it’s money that would need to attract income tax were I genuinely to not refund it. And that would be a catch-22, because I couldn’t declare it without drawing attention to the fact that I had defrauded it in the first place.

On the other hand, it’s almost impossible to see how this particular combination of tax fraud and payroll fraud could ever actually come to light. It’s buried deep and is lost in the noise. You’re merely adding to the list of moral turpitudes that not declaring it comprises, rather than adding genuine peril.

 

[kabbes]

What if I just didn’t bother claiming the refund? After all, it’s an effort. Isn’t my employer neutral between me not claiming it and me claiming it but keeping it?

Also, it was me spending my bank holiday faffing around to try to resolve this mess. So who morally deserves the compensation?

Ah, thoughts to think about. Ahhhh.

 

[kabbes]

I’m shocked you have to pay for your own flights and claim it back, would have thought you’d have a company Centurion Card…

Why on Earth would I do that when I can get my own cashback by using my own credit card?

 

[Elpenor]

Do you get DBS checked or similar to work in your industry? Though it sounds like there’s no chance of anyone discovering this hypothetical retention of the refund.

Perhaps you wouldn’t notice this refund until you receive your credit card statement in the post in around a month. I wonder if the defence - I never open my post - would work.

In the case of online statements - where the refund also would show a lot quicker on the account - then there’s perhaps a digital footprint that you’ve read the statement.

Even if you are flat out asked “did you get a refund to your card” and answer “no” I don’t know if your employer would be able to find out via the airline or your card company if you’re lying

 

[Storm Fox]

Heh, when the U.K. goes to shit, blame the French…

View attachment 389350

Or NATS fail to thoroughly test safety-critical systems allowing malformed data to crash the system.

 

[iona]

Is anyone really going to believe that kabbes of all people doesn't bother checking their bank statements or opening post?

 

[BigTom]

Heh, when the U.K. goes to shit, blame the French…

View attachment 389350

Exploits of a Mom

xkcd.com

 

[Spymaster]

What if I just didn’t bother claiming the refund? After all, it’s an effort. Isn’t my employer neutral between me not claiming it and me claiming it but keeping it?

Also, it was me spending my bank holiday faffing around to try to resolve this mess. So who morally deserves the compensation?

Ah, thoughts to think about. Ahhhh.

This is very simple as I’m sure you know.

You will never get caught but you are either a thief, or you’re not. If you are a thief, or you’re happy to become one for the sake of a couple of hundred quid, keep the money. Otherwise return it.

 

[kabbes]

This is very simple as I’m sure you know.

You will never get caught but you are either a thief, or you’re not. If you are a thief, or you’re happy to become one for the sake of a couple of hundred quid, keep the money. Otherwise return it.

You’re making a lot of sense. Keep it, it is. After all, I’ve been stealing my employer’s time for years.

 

[brogdale]

You’re making a lot of sense. Keep it, it is. After all, I’ve been stealing my employer’s time for years.

As the old saying goes...

 

[Spymaster]

You’re making a lot of sense. Keep it, it is. After all, I’ve been stealing my employer’s time for years.

You’ve already set your personal standards then, so you might as well steal from them properly, I suppose.

 

[redsquirrel]

Out of interest would people inform their employer if they made a claim via delay repay on the railways?

On this - I can't remember if it was my employer or one of my brothers - but when someone let them know about their refund, the response was ta keep it, its more effort to sort out than is worth it.

 

[Spymaster]

ATC disruption to be expected all week apparently.

We’re flying on Friday

 

[skyscraper101]

I’m flying on Thursday. This is not looking good is it.

 

[Elpenor]

Hopefully sorted for next week when I have to fly

 

[Elpenor]

You’ve already set your personal standards then, so you might as well steal from them properly, I suppose.

The theft opportunity I highlighted at a previous work was the “one big job that’ll set you up for life”.

We paid over more than a million of pension contributions to Aviva each month usually paid on pay day but not due until 22nd of the following month; but there was no way to check if the payees bank details had been amended. I could have been in a non-extradition country sipping a pina colada by the time anyone noticed.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

FWIW, BA are operating pretty much all their long-haul schedule today and much of their short-haul. They are offering those with short-haul flights today and tomorrow, even those that are operating the chance to move them free of charge to a later date. They expect everything to be back to normal by Thursday.

 

[Spymaster]

FWIW, BA are operating pretty much all their long-haul schedule today and much of their short-haul. They are offering those with short-haul flights today and tomorrow, even those that are operating the chance to move them free of charge to a later date. They expect everything to be back to normal by Thursday.

Whao gets the bill for this at the end of the day? Do the airlines and insurers have to wear it or does NATS have to cough-up?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Whao gets the bill for this at the end of the day? Do the airlines and insurers have to wear it or does NATS have to cough-up?

Fuck knows. The delay compo doesn't kick in cos it's not the airlines' fault, but of course the airlines must refund the tickets and where they have rebooked people for later in the week, (one of mine Bilbao-London last night, BA rebooked her on Thursday), they must pay for hotels, food and drink and other 'reasonable expenses. A huge percentage of affected passengers won't bother to claim, but the bill for those that do will be many millions. No idea if the airline can pass that on to NATS, would imagine that there is some kind of limited liability there. So that leaves the airlines to swallow it, or perhaps they are insured, but of course the insurance industry is now on its knees as they are down one stolen Easyjet refund and the tragic loss of a keynote speech in Zurich this morning

 

[Maltin]

Out of interest would people inform their employer if they made a claim via delay repay on the railways?

Isn’t that compensation for delays? Who has been delayed, the individual or the company? In most cases, I would say that it would be the individual inconvenienced and therefore don’t see why they should report it to save the company money just because the journey took longer than expected.

 

[skyscraper101]

FWIW, BA are operating pretty much all their long-haul schedule today and much of their short-haul. They are offering those with short-haul flights today and tomorrow, even those that are operating the chance to move them free of charge to a later date. They expect everything to be back to normal by Thursday.

Hoping the same for easyjet who I'm flying with on Thurs.

 

[kabbes]

In all seriousness, I was impressed with EasyJet’s systems to handle this. Their app was better at keeping me up to date than Gatwick’s own messaging system. And as soon as the flight was cancelled, the app automatically gave me a button to claim either a voucher or refund. And not just for the cancelled flight but also the return flight. Rather than lengthy phone calls and searching FAQs, they placed the option right in front of me. It only took a few clicks to claim it. After all the horror stories I’ve heard about other airlines (eg BA, Virgin, Ryanair), I was surprised at how slick EasyJet were. Aren’t they supposed to be the cheap option with customer service to match?

 

[Spymaster]

In all seriousness, I was impressed with EasyJet’s systems to handle this. Their app was better at keeping me up to date than Gatwick’s own messaging system. And as soon as the flight was cancelled, the app automatically gave me a button to claim either a voucher or refund. And not just for the cancelled flight but also the return flight. Rather than lengthy phone calls and searching FAQs, they placed the option right in front of me. It only took a few clicks to claim it. After all the horror stories I’ve heard about other airlines (eg BA, Virgin, Ryanair), I was surprised at how slick EasyJet were. Aren’t they supposed to be the cheap option with customer service to match?

I think if any part of a trip is cancelled, you have the right to a full refund (i.e. if you've already used the outbound leg but the return is cancelled, you get the whole lot back).

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

In all seriousness, I was impressed with EasyJet’s systems to handle this. Their app was better at keeping me up to date than Gatwick’s own messaging system. And as soon as the flight was cancelled, the app automatically gave me a button to claim either a voucher or refund. And not just for the cancelled flight but also the return flight. Rather than lengthy phone calls and searching FAQs, they placed the option right in front of me. It only took a few clicks to claim it. After all the horror stories I’ve heard about other airlines (eg BA, Virgin, Ryanair), I was surprised at how slick EasyJet were. Aren’t they supposed to be the cheap option with customer service to match?

Easyjet's system does work well, it does try to steer you towards a voucher more than refund, but as long as you give it your full attention you shouldn't press the wrong button.

No idea about BA and Virgin as we claim back via a very different system.

Ryanair, now, they refund very quickly too, but....I pay for the ticket with my Amex but the ticket is for you, Ryanair cancels the flight, I get the notification and apply for the refund, that refund goes in to a credit folder, to get the money back YOU must contact Ryanair and ask them to release the funds back to my card, you must follow that contact up by completing a form and sending that in along with photo id. Bear in mind that I may have made the booking for you at the behest of someone other than you and I have no way of actually contacting you. I currently have over £2000 in my credit account that I can't get to. This is a deliberate ploy to make it as hard as possible to get your money back, if I were to take them to court I would win, but I really don't have the time or bother to do so, especially as this money, like your Easyjet lucre isn't really mine, but should go back to whoever asked me to book the flight in the first place.

I think if any part of a trip is cancelled, you have the right to a full refund (i.e. if you've already used the outbound leg but the return is cancelled, you get the whole lot back).

Only if all on one ticket. If you booked Easyjet out and BA back and the Easyjet is cancelled, BA won't refund their ticket.

Fucking Ryanair again; doesn't allow any return flights that are not carbon copies of the outbound, so London-Milan Linate / Milan-Malpensa-London has to be two separate bookings, if the London-Linate is cancelled you don't get the Malpensa-London leg refunded.

 

[SpookyFrank]

TLDR: people should just buy their own plane tickets because it's not that hard.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

TLDR: people should just buy their own plane tickets because it's not that hard.

totally, you go right ahead frank. Then to change it when things go wrong head to ba.com...





It's not that hard.

 

[Dogsauce]

Out of interest would people inform their employer if they made a claim via delay repay on the railways?

The payment is compensation for the inconvenience, as the inconvenienced party then I guess it should be yours. I’ve had delays of over an hour on work journeys yet not been paid for the extra hour ‘worked’. Can’t actually recall an occasion where I actually claimed it though.

 

[SpookyFrank]

totally, you go right ahead frank. Then to change it when things go wrong head to ba.com...

View attachment 389375



It's not that hard.

But if you do it instead then the website is working somehow?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

But if you do it instead then the website is working somehow?

I don't use a website to book BA, I use the GDS which is where websites get their info from.

 

[Numbers]

Shit, just remembered that Numbers and partner was hoping to get back from their holiday in Greece, as his dad is drying in a Dublin hospital, I suppose there's a slim chance they made it back before the system went down.

We’re about to take off, an hour and 15 late so not bad.

I do have a guy the spit of Ronnie Pickering behind me who’s too big for his seat and is getting angry, apparently he should be in an extra leg room seat, which we are, so he’s fuming.