It's just the last few seconds where he levels out but then the plane continues going downwards (defying it's aerodynamics) that makes me think it has stalled. Of course he may have lost air speed because of mechanical failure which would help create stall conditions.
Plane crashes onto A27 at Shoreham Air Show
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It's just the last few seconds where he levels out but then the plane continues going downwards (defying it's aerodynamics) that makes me think it has stalled. Of course he may have lost air speed because of mechanical failure which would help create stall conditions.
When a plane stops flying is a stall. As in it can't produce lift so the laws of gravity get to work.
mauvais
on reddit or something
No, on multiple counts.
A stall is a specific aerodynamic condition.
What you've just described in the previous post is the same as experienced in a safe descent and go-around.
I edited my post to add a bit more info.
That's the trouble with this thread (apparently) - too full of people commenting about a matter of public concern when they have little or no "domain" experience..
If only the matter had been left to those with the appropriate "domain " knowledge these foolish and inaccurate blunders wouldn't have arisen.
Of course, it would result in a short, tiresome, and utterly elitist thread, but hey ho. Some people enjoy short tiresome and elitist
If only the matter had been left to those with the appropriate "domain " knowledge these foolish and inaccurate blunders wouldn't have arisen.
Of course, it would result in a short, tiresome, and utterly elitist thread, but hey ho. Some people enjoy short tiresome and elitist
mauvais
on reddit or something
Indeed, but it's still not a stall.
There's no stall involved in a successful loop. This would apparently have been a successful loop with another N feet of vertical space to play with, and until it was interrupted by colliding with the ground, was following the pattern of one (on the evidence I've seen anyway). This as opposed to say being in an aerodynamic spin which might not be recoverable even with a large amount of time and space.
Obvious stuff, but sufficient forward speed makes a certain amount of lift available, and that lift can be used to counter descent. If you don't have (and can't generate) enough speed to produce enough lift to counter your rate of descent in the physical space available, you crash. No stall is required.
Okay fair point.
But the stall could still occur after completing the loop when he realises he's too close to the ground and doesn't have the speed available when he increased his angle of attack was my point. If he had a bird strike or engine failure he could have been in that predicament.
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mauvais
on reddit or something
It's possible, but it wouldn't really matter; the point I've been making for a while is that the impact was baked-in a long way back; as Falcon pointed out, with knowledge of the available envelope being wrong, it could be have been aborted at the top of the loop, but beyond that point, in the absence of more power becoming available, you're committed to where you're going.
FWIW there's a few videos of the Eurofighter experiencing a near miss (and not in the carefully planned sense) at Fairford in 2005:
I didn't want to use that as an example because the EF aerodynamics are deeply complex and it has manoeuvrability beyond traditional flight dynamics, often involving or very close to stall itself. Nonetheless it doesn't require detailed physics to tell you that if you haven't got the means to escape your trajectory in the space available then you're going to hit, just like if you can't brake hard and fast enough in a car.
The only reason I mentioned a stall is that in the Guardian video he completes the loop and appears to remain level for a second and then the plane drops. The crash doesn't look like part of the trajectory of the loop, apart from him clearly completing the manoeuvre too close to the ground.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
It only has the one engine.
mauvais
on reddit or something
It looks normal to me but you would have to know how much thrust was expected to be available. An old prop plane doing it with hardly any power on tap would look a bit different to a modern jet that could power out more easily with more of a flared flourish (the extreme example being the EF videos). I don't expect the pilot's actual input would have changed very much - all he could do was hang on and hope for a near miss.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Local News ain't what it used to be.
gosub
~#
varying a type is massively expensive
Yeah I was just mitigating against smart Alecs.
gawkrodger
Well-Known Member
As planes (specifically fighter planes - normally less attraction to watch a bunch of glorified logistics planes buzzing about) become increasingly militarily outdated and irrelevant, will the airshows reduce?
If they stopped making fighter jets tomorrow, in another 60 years it seems.
mauvais
on reddit or something
It will have been manually flown. I'd be surprised if any manned display flight of any age aircraft is automated.
Not much point speculating on the root cause of the crash - so many possible factors. Historically, error of judgement has been the most common primary factor, but we don't know. The AAIB investigation - and indeed the pilot if he survives - may mean we find out, but we may never conclusively know.
Edit: G forces are a possible factor but I believe an inside loop like this isn't actually that demanding. Could be wrong.
Not much point speculating on the root cause of the crash - so many possible factors. Historically, error of judgement has been the most common primary factor, but we don't know. The AAIB investigation - and indeed the pilot if he survives - may mean we find out, but we may never conclusively know.
Edit: G forces are a possible factor but I believe an inside loop like this isn't actually that demanding. Could be wrong.
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mauvais
on reddit or something
Probably a lot longer tbf. The wing walking lot are using a type from 1934. There are 60 year old aircraft in active military service.
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