People who worry about long-term effects of the vaccines

[andysays]

The specific nature of the clots (eg occuring at the same time as low platelet counts) and how rare they otherwise are if we remove this vaccine from the picture, increases their confidence that the link is due to something that the AZ vaccines are causing.

Although there is plenty of detail that means I find it hard to summarise such matters using a couple of sentences without potentially ending up accidentally misleading.

Research is ongoing to explain the mechanism behind these events. Several diffeent theories have been presented so far. Inconclusive at the moment, but very little doubt that the vaccine is responsible.

There is another thread for that stuff because it doesnt come under long-term effects.

Thanks for that.

 

[dshl]

Has it now been demonstrated that those bloodclot figures are "caused by vaccine" rather than simply "happened after vaccine"?

That can't be worked out against a background of nothing. I would have thought the average blood clots expected are taken into account otherwise the same claims would be made of Pfizer, drinking orange juice or basically anything.

 

[andysays]

That can't be worked out against a background of nothing. I would have thought the average blood clots expected are taken into account otherwise the same claims would be made of Pfizer, drinking orange juice or basically anything.

It isn't a background of nothing though, as elbows has explained.

 

[dshl]

It isn't a background of nothing though, as elbows has explained.

Yes, how rare they are if there wasn't a vaccine, ie taking the average blood clots expected into account.

Them simply happening afterwards without a causal relationship could be applied to anything.

 

[platinumsage]

Yes, how rare they are if there wasn't a vaccine, ie taking the average blood clots expected into account.

Them simply happening afterwards without a causal relationship could be applied to anything.

These aren't "normal blood clots", it's a very unusual specific condition not seen elsewhere, although something similar has previously been observed following heparin treatment, called heparin-induced thrombocytopenia. But this happens without heparin treatment.

There are specific diagnostic criteria so that it can be distinguished from "normal" blood clots and the appropriate treatment provided:

 

[pinkmonkey]

I had loads of side effects with the vacc and it flattened me for weeks both times. But I think to get the virus would destroy me, my brother has been really ill with the delta variant and he'd been vacc'd once. We're both high risk.

I didn't get a measles vaccine as a child due to a cock-up. I got measles and the life long damage to my health I've suffered - well I wish I'd had the vaccine.

I wonder about the stats for those with long covid. I know a doctor who has it, she got a high viral load from working in a hospital and she's been rendered disabled by long covid even since, 6 months and counting.

 

[dshl]

These aren't "normal blood clots", it's a very unusual specific condition not seen elsewhere, although something similar has previously been observed following heparin treatment, called heparin-induced thrombocytopenia. But this happens without heparin treatment.

There are specific diagnostic criteria so that it can be distinguished from "normal" blood clots and the appropriate treatment provided:

View attachment 272951

Ok didn't know that.

 

[dshl]

There is another thread for that stuff because it doesnt come under long-term effects.

Is it far-fetched for blood-clots to be a potential long-term effect also though, being that we don't have data on long-term effects?

 

[elbows]

Is it far-fetched for blood-clots to be a potential long-term effect also though, being that we don't have data on long-term effects?

I think the main emphasis on long term effects on threads like this one tends to imply stuff that is totally unknown at this stage, stuff that would not be expected to show up yet. I do not dispute that effects that can clearly show up in the short-term also have potential long-term implications.

 

[platinumsage]

Is it far-fetched for blood-clots to be a potential long-term effect also though, being that we don't have data on long-term effects?

It is far-fetched, yes. The blood clots and indeed other side-effects seen appear to be caused by the body reacting to the vaccine, producing antibodies against platelets, that sort of thing. Why would the body suddenly start reacting to the vaccine and doing these kind of things in ten years time?

Sure, people who have experienced severe short-term effects requiring hospitalisation may find there is some long-term consequences of that, but this talk by anti-vaxers that healthy vaccinated people are going to start dropping dead in the next few years is far-fetched. It hasn’t happened with all the other vaccines for a start.

 

[dshl]

It is far-fetched, yes. The blood clots and indeed other side-effects seen appear to be caused by the body reacting to the vaccine, producing antibodies against platelets, that sort of thing. Why would the body suddenly start reacting to the vaccine and doing these kind of things in ten years time?

That's my line of thought also ... but don't feel scientifically equipped to say if true or an oversimplification.

 

[elbows]

A bunch of the medium and long term unknowns involve how the vaccines may interact with other vaccines, or lead to changes in our immune response to other diseases. There are not going to be simple answers to those questions in the short term.