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Murder of Lyra McKee in Londonderry, Apr 18, 2019

likesfish said:
among republicans everybody else doesnt care
Click to expand...

Have you ever been in the Republic?
And thrown out a comment like that? Try it. Try telling ordinary Irish people that the IRA of 1916 to 1922 are not worth remembering. Most people will just laugh at you because most people here avoid talking politics completely... but behind the laugh they'll just think you're a bit of an ignoramus.
 
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It was a Joke in a British Magazine.
bit like you can ask for an Irish carbomb as a cocktail in the states trying it overhere won't go down well.
 
Lupa said:
So?
Humans trace back to apes...doesnt mean we have to go back to that.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say bar that you believe they have a legitimate cause?

Most people in Eire would like a united Ireland....but we have moved beyond the bullet towards the ballot. There will be a time when the majority in NI will also want a united Ireland and that this will come about through peaceful negotiated means.

Eire 94% and NI 71% (81.1% turn out in NI) want peace. That is what people on the island of Ireland voted on in the Belfast Agreement.
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I thought I was saying something so obvious you'd say 'I know' and on we'd move, instead of your making yet more assertions you can't or won't support. You surely know ~90% of the Irish volunteers followed Redmond in 1914, leaving a tiny rump behind. You surely know that the split in the IRA round the Treaty saw most support the free state. And on and on. Your suggestion a tiny splinter has no legitimacy because it is a tiny splinter falls when you look back at 1916.

You say that most people who live in Ireland want peace. Yeh I'm sure they do. But the gfa not really imo the way to get a lasting peace, being as it secures the border, and the institutions aren't really working. When was the last time the la sat? Two years ago? And while there hasn't been a vast level of violence for a while, there's been a lot of little violence. There's been no real gain from your peace for eg the people of Creggan. Your solution not working for them. So while I feel, as I have said, the nira are not advancing the cause they espouse I can understand why they do what they do.
 
Lupa said:
Have you ever been in the Republic?
And thrown out a comment like that? Try it. Try telling ordinary Irish people that the IRA of 1916 to 1922 are not worth remembering. Most people will just laugh at you because most people here avoid taking politics completely... but behind the laugh they'll just think you're a bit of an ignoramus.
Click to expand...

“Try telling ordinary Irish people that the IRA of 1916 to 1922 are not worth remembering”
But do they remember them? Or, as our remembrance celebrations do, just remember the horrifying slaughter and the deaths, without giving thought to the reasons and circumstances leading up said catastrophe?
 
Pickman's model said:
. So while I feel, as I have said, the nira are not advancing the cause they espouse I can understand why they do what they do.
Click to expand...

As can I.

Power sharing has been non existent for the past 2 years as you say... The system was working in some sense when McGuinness was alive and up to the mess that was created by Arlene Foster and the failure on her part and the DUP to deal with corruption (cash for ash scandal). Their failure regarding the IRish language act is also a problem. And the DUP has a lot to answer for...and in all honesty even though many want it to work for the sake of peace, it doesn't look like it will work. Sinn Fein appear weak and the DUP leadership are too hardline.

On the treaty....the signing of the Anglo-Irish Treaty caused an angry reaction in the IRA and the general population. As you know, Dail Eireann ratified the Treaty by 64 votes to 57 so support for the agreement wasnt a huge majority. Dev resigned as president in opposition to the signing of the treaty...despite sending Collins over to sign it.... And the position moved rapidly to civil war with the IRA breaking into the pro treaty National Army (55000 regulars who went on to be the Irish Army) and the Anti Treaty Irregulars (14500 opposition to free state). Munster and Connaught brigades being heavily opposed to the treaty and Leinster Ulster and the midlands brigades being more pro treaty. But within each part of the country were pro and anti forces.

I was saying that splinters occurred all along post civil war era...leading up to the PIRA CIRA RIRA and now NIRA. Maybe I wasnt very clear.
Also, the NIRA are not the only splinter group around presently.
 
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coley said:
“Try telling ordinary Irish people that the IRA of 1916 to 1922 are not worth remembering”
But do they remember them? Or, as our remembrance celebrations do, just remember the horrifying slaughter and the deaths, without giving thought to the reasons and circumstances leading up said catastrophe?
Click to expand...

There is something wrong with this post, which I'm sure is not intentional but it makes the mistake of viewing Ireland through the prism of British experience.

If you've been to Ireland you'll notice that hospitals, train stations, streets, terraces, GAA clubs, all carry the name of someone who has some connection with the struggle against England. So there is remembering, there is both a celebration and at the same time sanitisation of the ideas and actions of those like Clarke, MacBride, and others, which is used and twisted to support the foundations of the state, which is in truth closer to William Martin Murphy than any of the participants of the Rising, and War of Independence (a massive misnomer.)

But there is also a very different reminder, take the example of Connolly, shot after the rising, there is still conflict about his legacy. Socialist? Republican? A bit of both? So in that sense there is an organic remembrance, which is discussed and contested in public and is something more living than just new history books or the 11th November performative remembrance.
 
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flypanam said:
There is something wrong with this post, which I'm sure is not intentional but it makes the mistake of viewing Ireland through the prism of British experience.

If you've been to Ireland you'll notice that hospitals, train stations, streets, terraces, GAA clubs, all carry the name of someone who has some connection with the struggle against England. So there is remembering, there is both a celebration and at the same time sanitisation of the ideas and actions of those like Clarke, MacBride, and others, which is used and twisted to support the foundations of the state, which is in truth closer to William Martin Murphy than any of the participants of the Rising, and War of Independence (a massive misnomer.)

But there is also a very different reminder, take the example of Connolly, shot after the rising, there is still conflict about his legacy. Socialist? Republican? A bit of both? So in that sense there is an organic remembrance, which is discussed and contested in public and is something more living than just new history books or the 11th November performative remembrance.
Click to expand...

Correct, Heuston station, Connolly Station, the GPO, Casement Park, the Kilmainham Tour, the massive commemoration of 1916, the statues of these people, Bodenwtown Wolfe Tone memorial. All these things, and many others, are remembered and maybe a bit too revered but they are in many ways, good and bad, immersed into the consciousness of the country.

I was in Quilty on County Clare as a wean and we went to Ennis toe county town of Ennis and when we got back the lad i'd struck up a friendship with told me it was where De Valera (spit) was the TD. The people of 1798, 1916, 1919, 1920-22 and to an extent 1959-1962 and 1969 0nwards are part an parcel, again rightly or wrongly part of the collective memory.

I have to admit I cringe when the likes of the Blueshirts in Fine Gael and the ex IRA descendents in Fianna Fail try and abuse the memory of Connolly, Frank Ryan, a man who fought the FG predecessors, and the radical wing of the Republican Movement. But Labour do it to trying to claim Connolly's mantle, boak. But there can be no doubt of the place in the collective memory.

And before anyone says yes their names as misused, abused, corrupted, bent and twisted for various shitey reasons bny absolute cunts.
 
And exemplified perfectly in a few of the verses from 'Terrorist or dreamer" especially the last two lines...


In '66 this country sang the praises of the dead,
We didn't call them rebels then we used 'patriot' instead,
On every household TV screen we saw how hard they fought,
How they spilled their life's blood, and how freedom had been bought
The garden gates were opened up to silent motorcades,
Cannons boomed and flags unfurled and solemn wreaths were laid,
Prayers for those departed were called for loud and clear,
For those who had been outlawed, ah but that was another year...

The veterans stood up stiff and proud, their white hair ruled the wind,
With their pride pinned to their gaberdine and thoughts upon their friends,
And bitter wounds burst open, the scars of history,
Went flying into our faces in stark reality,
Just up the road from Sackville Street ah but things are different now,
They said he was a rebel then but he's a hero now

There's tea and cakes in Downing Street, there's whispers in the halls,
Let's move to cure Rhodesia now our backs are to the wall.
There's panic down in Leinster House where words are seldom scarce,
"Send someone to Glasnevin quick to remember Padraig Pearse!"
 
Researcher from MTV:

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