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Marx on immigration ..

Ok, we're getting somewhere! So L&L was right about the post/thread/page then.

Seems pretty clear to me that d. replied to you with the bits he considered important put in bold but messed up the quote code. Happens all over the boards every day without any malicious intent whatsoever, esp when replying to multi-part posts. If he was trying to pass those bits off as yours he wouldn't have bolded them. There doesn't appear to be a case to answer. Can we move on now please?
 
Well he should have used the correct method of citation. Everyone else uses it, why shouldn't he?

Oh and L&L wasn't "right about the page" or the post number either.
 
nino_savatte said:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6010440&postcount=265


http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6011157&postcount=269
Click to expand...

Is that it???? after all the accusations of tampering???? that i replied in your text IN BOLD to make it VERY CLEAR it was me not you???? ]

this is what you call tampering???? and have been acusing me of for months??

oh for fuck sake nino please please deal with issues/OPs not on this level .. i would have apologised IMMEDIATELY if you did not like me doing this ( as i did when i put numbers in your posts (for clarity)
 
nino_savatte said:
Moe sinned against than sinning. Anyone would think that you were totally innocent. :rolleyes:

Do you always threaten other posters with bannings (even though you don't have the power?).
Click to expand...



nino i am NOT totally innocent .. i have lost it with you before and insulted you .. but never to the level you insult me

and i do NOT go onto your threads and accuse for months on end that there is something nasty behind the OP. And I do not start threads accusing you of shit WITHOUT any evidence.

equally i do NOT make accusations against you that are unfounded .. except once i accused you of being a stalinist. I based this on the way you argue and insinuate that someone ( me) was a racist/fascist, without providing ANY evidence but by nods and winks. I accept i was wrong and have previoulsy apologised for this.

You know mate in all this never once have you ever apologised to me for anything; Not the vile dig that i have alzheimers, not the nasty suggestion i am like those who think that migrants are here to 'fuck our women', nor the time you refused to belive my longest mate is black calling me a liar, not all the 'fucking stupid twat' insults. etc etc etc. NOT ONE APOLOGY nino when i have shown your insults to be wrong countless times

and so you wonder why i think you should be banned? because you do NOT debate. You are opinionated ( fine) but you do NOT engage in debate of OPs i create. YOu instead seek to dismiss the OP by insinuation of nastyness or bigotry, or whatever, BEHIND the OP, NEVER with ANY evidence.

And you CONSTANTLY misrepresent my posts/opinions e.g. that i have painted marx as a racist or that i have said marx was against immigration or that i have said migrants get priority in social housing. Over and over patiently i have shown this NOT to be true with referneces to articles and posts. Yet over and over you repeat the false allegations.
and you have, dozens of times, accused me of tampering with your posts. A serious accusation!! so i have consistently demanded you provide evidence ... and FINALLY you produce evidence!!! .. all it was was that i had replied IN BOLD in your text. something that people do ALL the time!!!

Did you not think that someday my patience would give out???

will it has nino. If you persist in this malicious behaviour i will do my utmost to get you banned. If you stop it i will post with you as happily as any other poster. OK?:)
 
nino_savatte said:
I understand what you're saying but some posters actively seek to get others banned from Urban. I've seen this sort of thing happen before.
Click to expand...

nino .. i am seeking toget you banned ONLY if you persist in your disruptive behaviour ... please please deal with how you post .. dropped the insults .. drop the paranoia ( see above again!!" I've seen this sort of thing happen before" ) and just debate!!!
 
durruti02 said:
Is that it???? after all the accusations of tampering???? that i replied in your text IN BOLD to make it VERY CLEAR it was me not you???? ]

this is what you call tampering???? and have been acusing me of for months??

oh for fuck sake nino please please deal with issues/OPs not on this level .. i would have apologised IMMEDIATELY if you did not like me doing this ( as i did when i put numbers in your posts (for clarity)
Click to expand...

There have been other instances where you have misquoted me and I have indicated these too.

I have dealt with the issues and the OP, you refused to accept what I've had to say.
 
Crispy said:
Look, I understand why you're getting angry - it's because I don't know what the fuck's going on, and I've professed not to care. And I'll be honest here - I don't know what's going on because it bores the living cat crap out of me. I read the threads I'm interested in, and when posts get reported I read those too. But I don't see the big picture, and shouldn't be expected to - there are 4000 new posts per day on urban and I won't read them all.

Now, having said that, I'll take some time this evening to read through this thread and see if I can see what's going on. I might even spank someone's wrist, if it turns out someone's being childish enough to respond to such childish measures.

"Why is this allowed" is the wrong sort of question. It implies a continuous vetting process of permitted and forbidden activity. As far as I'm concerned my responsibilities as a moderator are, in order of importance:

1. Remove material that is illegal or could lead to urban75 being sued
2. Ban spammers and delete spam
3. Verify new users
4. Correct spelling mistakes in thread titles, move threads, merge threads, bin threads
5. Tell off grown men and women for bickering at each other.
Click to expand...

fair play crispy .. as regards first bit of post

and equally for second part, though i also thought you moderated/monitored breachs of posting rules especially where posts were reported .. thought i had seen that before from mods?
 
durruti02 said:
nino .. i am seeking toget you banned ONLY if you persist in your disruptive behaviour ... please please deal with how you post .. dropped the insults .. drop the paranoia ( see above again!!" I've seen this sort of thing happen before" ) and just debate!!!
Click to expand...

You have neither the right nor the authority to get anyone banned.

It's too easy for you to accuse me of "paranoia" or to suggest that all I have done is issue insults for no reason. If I have used insults, I have done so in retaliation. Also, this insistence that I am "disrupting" the threads is wide of the mark.

Debating anything with you tends to be a frustrating experience that involves going round and round in circles. I am not sure that you actually want to debate anything, unless it already conforms to the parameters set by you.
 
durruti02 said:
fair play crispy .. as regards first bit of post

and equally for second part, though i also thought you moderated/monitored breachs of posting rules especially where posts were reported .. thought i had seen that before from mods?
Click to expand...
Basically, it's when we can be arsed, and when butting in won't end up making the situation worse.
 
durruti02 said:
nino i am NOT totally innocent .. i have lost it with you before and insulted you .. but never to the level you insult me

and i do NOT go onto your threads and accuse for months on end that there is something nasty behind the OP. And I do not start threads accusing you of shit WITHOUT any evidence.

equally i do NOT make accusations against you that are unfounded .. except once i accused you of being a stalinist. I based this on the way you argue and insinuate that someone ( me) was a racist/fascist, without providing ANY evidence but by nods and winks. I accept i was wrong and have previoulsy apologised for this.

You know mate in all this never once have you ever apologised to me for anything; Not the vile dig that i have alzheimers, not the nasty suggestion i am like those who think that migrants are here to 'fuck our women', nor the time you refused to belive my longest mate is black calling me a liar, not all the 'fucking stupid twat' insults. etc etc etc. NOT ONE APOLOGY nino when i have shown your insults to be wrong countless times

and so you wonder why i think you should be banned? because you do NOT debate. You are opinionated ( fine) but you do NOT engage in debate of OPs i create. YOu instead seek to dismiss the OP by insinuation of nastyness or bigotry, or whatever, BEHIND the OP, NEVER with ANY evidence.

And you CONSTANTLY misrepresent my posts/opinions e.g. that i have painted marx as a racist or that i have said marx was against immigration or that i have said migrants get priority in social housing. Over and over patiently i have shown this NOT to be true with referneces to articles and posts. Yet over and over you repeat the false allegations.
and you have, dozens of times, accused me of tampering with your posts. A serious accusation!! so i have consistently demanded you provide evidence ... and FINALLY you produce evidence!!! .. all it was was that i had replied IN BOLD in your text. something that people do ALL the time!!!

Did you not think that someday my patience would give out???

will it has nino. If you persist in this malicious behaviour i will do my utmost to get you banned. If you stop it i will post with you as happily as any other poster. OK?:)
Click to expand...

You're pretty handy with the insults too, durutti. How many times have you called me "thick"?

the nasty suggestion i am like those who think that migrants are here to 'fuck our women',
Click to expand...

I never suggested such a thing. Indeed I used a widely known cliche, ironically, to illustrate a point. You took it upon yourself to regard this as an 'insult'.

and i do NOT go onto your threads and accuse for months on end that there is something nasty behind the OP. And I do not start threads accusing you of shit WITHOUT any evidence.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? You were on the "Too many immigration threads" thread that I started.

With regards to this thread, I put it to you that you were using a selectivised quote from a letter to suggest that Marx was an early advocate of immigration controls or that the quote itself could be seen as a rationalisation of a 'left' position on the issue. You took that a wee bit too personally, indeed you tried to suggest that I was calling you a "racist" or some such nonsense.:rolleyes: I also wanted to know, for what purpose, you began this thread, I never got an answer, just abuse or insinuations.

It is still not clear why you began this thread. You appear to suggest that Marx is contradicting himself but offer nothing at all in the OP, other than this quote

..Ireland constantly sends her own surplus to the English labour market, and thus forces down wages and lowers the material and moral position of the English working class..."
Click to expand...

Which you used to move onto this

interestingly the left often reproduces parts of this letter ( below) but not the above sentance ..
Click to expand...

...and proceed to the quote itself.

"..And most important of all! Every industrial and commercial centre in England now possesses a working class divided into two hostile camps, English proletarians and Irish proletarians. The ordinary English worker hates the Irish worker as a competitor who lowers his standard of life. In relation to the Irish worker he regards himself as a member of the ruling nation and consequently he becomes a tool of the English aristocrats and capitalists against Ireland, thus strengthening their domination over himself. He cherishes religious, social, and national prejudices against the Irish worker. His attitude towards him is much the same as that of the “poor whites” to the Negroes in the former slave states of the U.S.A.. The Irishman pays him back with interest in his own money. He sees in the English worker both the accomplice and the stupid tool of the English rulers in Ireland..."
Click to expand...

So what are you saying? That a leftist pro-immigration stance is contradictory? None of it is clear; this is my problem with this thread and your explanations.
 
nino .. what do you make of this?

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6083801&postcount=370
"You're far too obsessed with this subject to have anything other than sinister motives"

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5799831&postcount=3
"Behind these threads lies the ugly face of racism."

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5900388&postcount=529
"[B]Dorito is always using language like "looking after one's own". The BNP and the NF also use that phrase"[/B]

( this is particularly silly as the point of this was too see the differrences between a racist backward reactionary 'our own' and a modern multiracial progressive 'our own' .. but as usual nino giot obsessed on the words:rolleyes: )

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5942025&postcount=588
"Do you actually know any Black people, durutti? I don't think that you do"

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5954899&postcount=602

"I've heard the "some of my best friends are black" line before btw. You must think that I came down in the last shower. It's one of the worst cliches anyone could use in response to the question that I put to you."
"You're a liar, durutti. If you think that I'm going to believe you and change my mind on the basis of that cliched statement, you're a bigger fool that I first thought." :D

this went round in circles for a while till

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5957582&postcount=618

"Originally Posted by durruti02
you see this is your problem .. your embarrssment not mine ... and so it is NOT a cliche cos sadly, for you,not for me, it actually is true .. so apology please .. and get back to the debate ffs p.s. muppet .. i only mentionned it cos you asked 'did i know any black people'! "[/B]

to which nino came back

"No, arsehole, it is not my problem, it is yours. You are the one who relies on shitty cliches like "some of my best friends are black". It didn't impress in the 70's and it sounds even more ridiculous today. I have nothing to apologise for, go fuck yourself."


http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5877220&postcount=104
"You support immigration controls and immigration controls are racist."


http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5904094&postcount=166
"You're not fooling anyone. You're a nasty wee xenophobe who doesn't like his ideas on immigration exposed for what they are".

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5904451&postcount=175
"durutti has started over 16 threads on the subject of immigration in the last year or so. Perhaps you don't see that as obsessive but even a novice psychologist would recognise it as symptomatic of an obsessive disorder."

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5954887&postcount=218
"You're not doing too well here, durutti. Your posts betray you as a right winger (You're no fucking Marxist, that's for sure)".

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6083766&postcount=250
" ..you pin the blame on "immigration" and by extension, the immigrants themselves .."

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6165760&postcount=379
"You're a nasty, embittered man who hasn't the guts or the honesty to admit that he isn't what he says he is."

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6003324&postcount=204
"...your deeply held notion that Britain is being "swamped" by immigrants .."

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6052871&postcount=355
"To you, they are all the same and they are here taking our housing, our shitty low-paid jobs and fucking our women."


and when knotted qouted all this .. you ignored it
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6061699&postcount=326
 
Ok - nino, stop calling durrito a racist please. Thank you.
durrito - please try as hard as you can to ignore him. Thank you.

If you want, I can ban you both if I hear another peep, but that's how I'd treat children, not adults, and I'm dealing with adults here, right? :)
 
durruti02 said:
nino .. i am seeking toget you banned ONLY if you persist in your disruptive behaviour ... please please deal with how you post .. dropped the insults .. drop the paranoia ( see above again!!" I've seen this sort of thing happen before" ) and just debate!!!
Click to expand...

I would prefer it too if you also cut out the insults - that I am a 'lecturer' for example. :D I am not. :mad:
 
durruti02 said:
and when knotted qouted all this .. you ignored it
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6061699&postcount=326
Click to expand...

Could I just say that this fact does not give me any cause for concern at all, and it shouldn't bother you either.

I appreciate that on a forum like this its natural to demand posters are accountable to their views especially if they seem up for an argument. But is it really necessary? Does it matter if they refuse? Does everybody need to have their contradictions examined with a microscope? A lot of people will arrive at a point of view when it seems attractive not when they have realised that their old points of view are flawed. I'm not one of these people, but it takes all types and all that.:)

I've probably said worse things to nino than anyone, yet the last exchange we had was amiable. He doesn't bare grudges. He certainly doesn't stalk people. He just can't cope with intense debate. You on the other hand are a debate junky :D . Nothing wrong with that, just debate with someone who is genuinely up for it.

Don't use the ignore function. Don't even feel the need to respond politely if you don't feel its appropriate. Respond to his abuse with abuse if you fancy - he can take it, he's a toughnut in that respect. Seriously. I also don't think its necessary to try to ban him. His abuse is just personal - it is not political abuse. Just treat him like a civilian and not a political combatant and this whole problem will go away. :)
 
Crispy said:
Ok - nino, stop calling durrito a racist please. Thank you.
durrito - please try as hard as you can to ignore him. Thank you.

If you want, I can ban you both if I hear another peep, but that's how I'd treat children, not adults, and I'm dealing with adults here, right? :)
Click to expand...

I have never called durutti a "racist". :mad:
 
He just can't cope with intense debate.
Click to expand...

Not true, I just don't like folk offering narratives for 'debate' and then, when I try to uncover the truth, they do all they can to personalise the argument.
 
MC5 said:
You're bent on stirring the pot aren't you?
Click to expand...
Isn't he always?
This is a politics forum, and the most political he ever gets is to chide people for not sharing his opinions of Tony Blair. The rest of his posts are these pathetic one-liners that are more about him pissing and whining than about anything worth paying attention to.

That's why I put him on ignore. I only ever have to endure his drivel when some kind sould ( :mad: ) quotes it. :)
 
Crispy said:
Ok - nino, stop calling durrito a racist please. Thank you.
durrito - please try as hard as you can to ignore him. Thank you.

If you want, I can ban you both if I hear another peep, but that's how I'd treat children, not adults, and I'm dealing with adults here, right? :)
Click to expand...

You're going to have to give yourself a 24hr ban now, Crispy, mocking Durutti02's username like that and making him sound like a bag of over-priced Yankee potato snacks. :p
 
nino_savatte said:
I have never called durutti a "racist". :mad:
Click to expand...


nino .. what do you make of this?

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=370
"You're far too obsessed with this subject to have anything other than sinister motives"

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...31&postcount=3
"Behind these threads lies the ugly face of racism."

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=529
"Dorito is always using language like "looking after one's own". The BNP and the NF also use that phrase"[/b]

( this is particularly silly as the point of this was too see the differrences between a racist backward reactionary 'our own' and a modern multiracial progressive 'our own' .. but as usual nino giot obsessed on the words )

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=588
"Do you actually know any Black people, durutti? I don't think that you do"

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=602

"I've heard the "some of my best friends are black" line before btw. You must think that I came down in the last shower. It's one of the worst cliches anyone could use in response to the question that I put to you."
"You're a liar, durutti. If you think that I'm going to believe you and change my mind on the basis of that cliched statement, you're a bigger fool that I first thought."


"No, arsehole, it is not my problem, it is yours. You are the one who relies on shitty cliches like "some of my best friends are black". It didn't impress in the 70's and it sounds even more ridiculous today. I have nothing to apologise for, go fuck yourself."


http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=104
"You support immigration controls and immigration controls are racist."


http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=166
"You're not fooling anyone. You're a nasty wee xenophobe who doesn't like his ideas on immigration exposed for what they are". http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=175
"durutti has started over 16 threads on the subject of immigration in the last year or so. Perhaps you don't see that as obsessive but even a novice psychologist would recognise it as symptomatic of an obsessive disorder."

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=218
"You're not doing too well here, durutti. Your posts betray you as a right winger (You're no fucking Marxist, that's for sure)".

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=250
" ..you pin the blame on "immigration" and by extension, the immigrants themselves .."http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=379

"You're a nasty, embittered man who hasn't the guts or the honesty to admit that he isn't what he says he is."

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=204
"...your deeply held notion that Britain is being "swamped" by immigrants .."

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=355
"To you, they are all the same and they are here taking our housing, our shitty low-paid jobs and fucking our women."


and when knotted qouted all this .. you ignored it
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...&postcount=326


:D :D .. you do talk out of your arse sometimes do you not? if this not saying someone is racist i do not know!! :D

p.s fancy a drink with me and say knotted to clear all this up? :)
 
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