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Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

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Pretty much what it sounds like.

Returnees.... I doubt they can just waltz back in. I'd much rather have a past jihadist that's renounced his/her ways and been brought back to being a functioning member of society than one that's tried to come back and been rejected. Can you not see that actions like that can former further radicalism?

The problem being that they'll have been fully-immersed in a belief system that has fully justified their actions as - essentially - fulfilment of "holy writ". IMO you require something deeper and more intensive than simple rehabilitation in order to render that person "safe" to return to society. You need to "de-program" them (something I'm also an advocate of for ANY military or paramilitary personnel,when they leave their organisation).
 
I spent a car journey with a highly-principled, criminal barrister who drew the conclusion from Nuremberg that they should have just put the senior Nazis against a wall and shot them. Summary 'victors' justice would have been more honest than imposing judicial trappings on what could never have anything other than a show trial.

They were not wrong, though. One German U-Boat commander got executed for exactly the same act as a US submarine commander got the Navy Cross for.
 
Screen them, and check on them, and then what? What are the numbers here? A few thousand "oops, soz about that, can I come home now and all back to normal"? Or are you advocating building some sort of UK Guantanamo for the ones that fail to completely convince the security services of their change of heart/accidentally got mixed up with a bad bunch?

That's pretty much what would have to be done if a system of return was put in place, IMO. While it might act as a filter that blocked many "true believers"/false repenters from getting through, it would still allow the more plausible, and the more interrogation-hardened, to slip through. We need to acknowledge that if the state permits such things, that it won't be the state that pays in blood if/when something goes wrong.
 
Yes, definitely easier & more attractive to just let em be martyrs. Similar though less emotive issues and procedures do exist born out of grappling with screening ex-convict ex-gang members for the normal 'mentoring' stuff though.
That report from ICSR is worth a look (linked above)

There's certainly a dynamic in play that would benefit from compelling those who've already become "foreign fighters" to stay, not least because it would encourage some of those considering doing so to think about the permanency of their choice.
 
IMO it's a question of scale. I believe that Daesh would still exist, but very much as a small group of religiously-motivated whack-jobs among other such small groups. The ground conflicts In Iraq and Afghanistan gave nourishment to such groups, rather than creating them.

They'd probably be a one man and his dog get together in the back room of the pub to talk about jihad sort of thing
 
Fine known terrorist sympathisers. Three of the bombers had minor criminal records for shoplifting etc.

Do you think weshould label any Muslim with any kind of criminal record as a terrorist?

I would say that prison is a "concentrating" environment in the effect it has on individuals, and that already-detained Islamists will take advantage of the dislocation that fresh Muslim meat will feel. In other words, we should be aware that incarceration - for whatever sort of petty or non-petty crime - can be a pathway to radicalisation. Even the social shame provoked by being the person who has a "minor criminal record" in a mono-cultural local community, can be a pathway to radicalisation, if the only people who are "forgiving" of your crime are Islamists. Bear in mind that the recruiters/facilitators tend to be expert manipulators.
 
That's pretty much what would have to be done if a system of return was put in place, IMO. While it might act as a filter that blocked many "true believers"/false repenters from getting through, it would still allow the more plausible, and the more interrogation-hardened, to slip through. We need to acknowledge that if the state permits such things, that it won't be the state that pays in blood if/when something goes wrong.

What is the answer then? Do you have one? I certainly don't.

I asked someone at work yesterday the question, 'Given unlimited powers, what would you do to sort this?'. The answer, when it finally came, was 'Fuck knows'.

That about sums it up really.

I would advocate bombing the cunts into atoms, however, there are civilians in the areas they hold, civilians that cannot get out.

Another option is troops in. Are we willing to send our young people to die there though? Perhaps we must accept that to end this, blood must be spilled, and will be spilled, whether it is service people, or civilians such as those slaughtered in London. At least service deaths would be meaningful in terms of a good outcome.

We are up against an enemy that is not afraid to die, many would embrace death. Negotiation is not an option, but neither is doing nothing. Had we put troops in at the genesis of IS, then it would be finished now. They will not be able to win against substantial numbers of regular troops.

Whether or not IS is the result of Western actions in the area is immaterial, we can't roll the clock back. We have to deal with the situation that now exists.

How though?
 
We are up against an enemy that is not afraid to die, many would embrace death. Negotiation is not an option, but neither is doing nothing. Had we put troops in at the genesis of IS, then it would be finished now. They will not be able to win against substantial numbers of regular troops.

Massive silly. You have no idea what you even think that you're fighting.

What do you think was the genesis of IS?
 
Another option is troops in. Are we willing to send our young people to die there though? Perhaps we must accept that to end this, blood must be spilled, and will be spilled, whether it is service people, or civilians such as those slaughtered in London. At least service deaths would be meaningful in terms of a good outcome.

Fuckin' nora.
 
How though?

A good start would not be to repeat the mistakes of the past; whether that is making token responses in order to make a political point (eg: plotting to take part in a bombing campaign that already has sixteen other nations, almost all of which have committed more force than we would), or acquiescing in events that destroy positive moves in the region (like the utter lack of fucks given when Morsi was kicked out and his supporters butchered, despite the clear electoral victories he obtained), or even the continual attempts to belittle diplomatic efforts, even though those same efforts have prevented at least once huge mistake (the failed bomb Assad campaign a few years ago) and are behind the emerging coalition against IS that we see today, as well as the lowering of tensions between the West and Iran. Some acknowledgement from the political class that Western policy in the region since the invasion of Afghanistan has been an unmitigated disaster, and legal consequences for those who were responsible, would not go amiss either.

Sadly having watched the Commons debate this afternoon, I think there is zero chance of any of that happening.
 
Whether or not IS is the result of Western actions in the area is immaterial, we can't roll the clock back. We have to deal with the situation that now exists.

How though?

Firstly by placing what happened in historical context rather then saying that past is gone.These attacks were the past in the present. Then by thinking about how they were produced - what sort of thing went into the pot. Seems clear to me that there's a dialectic between alienation at home ( and i don't mean material poverty) and the effects of a long term foreign policy that effects these guilty people that they should be saving.
 
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