arctic death camps: fun for all the family

[pbman]

I told pbman that everytime I saw him referring to "commies" that I would hurl the word "fascist" in his direction. It's only fair under the circumstances.

Sounds like something a commie would say.

Why is it commies don't like being called commies anyways?

 

[quamp1]

That's easy, the word has a negative connotation to it. It's like how homosexuals hate being called 'fags.' (Well, here in America anyway.)

As for getting back to the topic, this is not something new. People come from all over the world to see where President Kennedy was shot in Dallas. People visit Alcatraz island in San Francisco bay. And what about the Tower of London, hmm?
Same thing, more or less. Some people are fixated with death, cruelty, and torture. Why is beyond me.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Visiting something while you are in the area, no problems with that. But selling a 'holiday destination' based on that seems a bit ghoulish to me.

How many tourists would go to Krakow etc, were it not for the Holocaust?

 

[nino_savatte]

Sounds like something a commie would say.

Why is it commies don't like being called commies anyways?

And that sounds like something only an ignorant redneck buffoon would say.

Like I said, you keep referring to us as "commies" and you'll get Nazi or fascist thrown back at you. So how are your jackboot wearing pals these days peebs? Burned down any churches lately? Lynched any black men?

 

[Shreddy]

Personally, if I had the time and the resources, I'd be most interested in this type of um, vacation.

I work in media; whilst I'm employed in film/video audio post/sound design, I'm a Communications grad (film minor) and fancy myself as a bit of a documentary film/vid dude. I just dropped a bundle of cash on some new HDV kit for this very purpose, and I've given my partner/S.O. notice that I didn't buy an eight thousand dollar camera to shoot her sister's wedding video...

That said, if I was so inclined as to write/build a documentary around the history of Stalin's gulags (and the 10-20 hours of fabulously grim footage this trip would offer), a package tour such as this would probably be the ONLY practical way to pull it off in any cost-effective manner. In fact, with my non-existent Russian skills and the complexity of travel involved, I could never even consider the possibility of such a vacation/project. (This tour package is very reasonable indeed...)

From that angle, it sounds rather intriguing to me. Hell, even if one was a STILL PHOTOGRAPHER, I'd guarantee one's friends would actually be INTERESTED in the "vacation photos".

To the OP: I don't find this subject/vacation package in the least bit "morbid". It's HISTORY. Not to mention, good ol' entrepreneurialism thriving in the the old Soviet Union as well...I'd take them up on it in a heartbeat had I the resources and/or time.

"arctic death camps"?: Sure, why the fuck not?

"fun for all the family"?: I'd use this type of vacation precisely to GET AWAY from the freakin' family. By design, they wouldn't be interested...which is just perfect from my POV. I'd have to drag along the lads!

 

[pbman]

Personally, if I had the time and the resources, I'd be most interested in this type of um, vacation.

I work in media; whilst I'm employed in film/video audio post/sound design, I'm a Communications grad (film minor) and fancy myself as a bit of a documentary film/vid dude. I just dropped a bundle of cash on some new HDV kit for this very purpose, and I've given my partner/S.O. notice that I didn't buy an eight thousand dollar camera to shoot her sister's wedding video...

That said, if I was so inclined as to write/build a documentary around the history of Stalin's gulags (and the 10-20 hours of fabulously grim footage this trip would offer), a package tour such as this would probably be the ONLY practical way to pull it off in any cost-effective manner. In fact, with my non-existent Russian skills and the complexity of travel involved, I could never even consider the possibility of such a vacation/project. (This tour package is very reasonable indeed...)

From that angle, it sounds rather intriguing to me. Hell, even if one was a STILL PHOTOGRAPHER, I'd guarantee one's friends would actually be INTERESTED in the "vacation photos".

To the OP: I don't find this subject/vacation package in the least bit "morbid". It's HISTORY. Not to mention, good ol' entrepreneurialism thriving in the the old Soviet Union as well...I'd take them up on it in a heartbeat had I the resources and/or time.

"arctic death camps"?: Sure, why the fuck not?

"fun for all the family"?: I'd use this type of vacation precisely to GET AWAY from the freakin' family. By design, they wouldn't be interested...which is just perfect from my POV. I'd have to drag along the lads!

Well said for a first post.

If it was one of hitlers death camps recently disscovered, reporters would be falling over thmesleves to document it.

But they like to ignore commie death camps, and or snear at them with terms like "fun for all the family", implying that their is something wrong with people who want to see and document how stalin killed so many.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well said for a first post.

If it was one of hitlers death camps recently disscovered, reporters would be falling over thmesleves to document it.

But they like to ignore commie death camps, and or snear at them with terms like "fun for all the family", implying that their is something wrong with people who want to see and document how stalin killed so many.

& - if they're thinking ahead - taking notes for future reference.

 

[pbman]

And that sounds like something only an ignorant redneck buffoon would say.

Like I said, you keep referring to us as "commies" and you'll get Nazi or fascist thrown back at you. So how are your jackboot wearing pals these days peebs? Burned down any churches lately? Lynched any black men?

Theirs a difference, you are a commie, and i'm not a socalist like hitlers.

Commies and nazi's are both left wing thugs,as you very well know.

 

[Pickman's model]

Theirs a difference, you are a commie, and i'm not a socalist like hitlers.

Commies and nazi's are both left wing thugs,as you very well know.

i'd prefer you not to derail my beautiful thread.

 

[pbman]

i'd prefer you not to derail my beautiful thread.

People in hell want ice water as well.

I don't give either of you very good odds.

But i do like the topic of disscusing the many people commies brutal murderd, so i will try to stay on track. As these things get very little press.

St.Petersburg law enforcement officers discovered a very sensational find, which is most likely yet another mass burial situated near the Russia’s northern capital. Members of the Memorial searching group suppose that mass executions were held at the Rzhevsky artillery range during 1937-38.

According to provisional and yet to be confirmed information, about 30,000 people are lying in the burial place. Several large common graves have been already discovered. Remains found prove that the people were shot. Experts say the shots in the back of the people’s heads were from 45 caliber guns, which were commonly used by the Soviet People’s Commissariat of Internal Affairs.

As of now, several graves have been already inspected, and a more detailed investigation of the area is to start very soon. However, there is another problem: the mass burial is situated in the functioning Rzhevsky artillery range, which is covored by unexploded mines and shells. In addition, no official evidence has been found yet to confirm that mass shootings had been executed at the range during 1937-38. A special searching group consisting of forensic medical experts, geographers, ballisticians, and soil scientists has already been created. Most liely, the fact that mass shootings were held at the artillery range during 1937-38 will be soon be confirmed.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/09/23/37060.html


Its a shame ernie isn't around.

 

[Pickman's model]

But i do like the topic of disscusing the moany people commies brutal murderd,

what makes you think they were whinging types? that's not a very nice thing for you to say.

 

[pbman]

what makes you think they were whinging types? that's not a very nice thing for you to say.

But far nicer than commies killing them.

CAn we agree on that?

And can we agree that all these commie crimes need to be documented like hitlers crimes so that they never happen again.

We owe that much to those who died.

 

[Pickman's model]

But far nicer than commies killing them.

CAn we agree on that?

you seem somewhat confused.

 

[pbman]

you seem somewhat confused.

I wasn't finished.

 

[Pickman's model]

I wasn't finninshed.

 

[pbman]

And i wasn't finished with that either.

Nice try at trolling your own thread off topic, btw.

Why did you start it anyways?

 

[Pickman's model]

And i wasn't finished with that either.

 

[pbman]

Ok to get back on topic.

Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20 000 000
There are basically two schools of thought when it comes to the number who died at Stalin's hands. There's the "Why doesn't anyone realize that communism is the absolutely worst thing ever to hit the human race, without exception, even worse than both world wars, the slave trade and bubonic plague all put together?" school, and there's the "Come on, stop exaggerating. The truth is horrifying enough without you pulling numbers out of thin air" school. The two schools are generally associated with the right and left wings of the political spectrum, and they often accuse each other of being blinded by prejudice, stubbornly refusing to admit the truth, and maybe even having a hidden agenda. Also, both sides claim that recent access to former Soviet archives has proven that their side is right.
Here are a few illustrative estimates from the Big Numbers school:
Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993 cites these:
Chistyakovoy, V. (Neva, no.10): 20 million killed during the 1930s.
Dyadkin, I.G. (Demograficheskaya statistika neyestestvennoy smertnosti v SSSR 1918-1956 ): 56 to 62 million "unnatural deaths" for the USSR overall, with 34 to 49 million under Stalin.
Gold, John.: 50-60 million.

How many people do you think he killed?

Looks like even the low estimates are far more than hitler killed.

Although it's too early to be taking sides with absolute certainty, a consensus seems to be forming around a death toll of 20 million. This would adequately account for all documented nastiness without straining credulity:

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm

And i would bet that most of those dead people were working class people.

Why does the working class today, like to forget about their dead brothers?

 

[Oxpecker]

30-06-2004, 10:11 AM
arctic death camps: fun for all the family

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or so the travel agents would have you believe!

i thought someone would have replied to this by now.

Is this some sort of record?

16 months for the first response!

 

[pbman]

[
Is this some sort of record?

16 months for the first response!

If it is i can beat it in a minute by bumping some old thread.............

How many people do you think the commies killed?

I'm going for 25 million myself.

 

[Oxpecker]

How many people do you think the commies killed?

I'm going for 25 million myself.

I don't regard Stalin as a communist, so I can't really join in your guessing game. For a guessing game is all it is.

 

[pbman]

I don't regard Stalin as a communist, so I can't really join in your guessing game. For a guessing game is all it is.

No problem hitler was a lefty thou, so who many do you think he killed then?

If you can decide stalin wans't a commies, you have to own up to, my right to decide hitler was a lefty.

 

[Poi E]

Before you edited the post you said that the UK supports Baathist thugs and terrorists. What support did you have for that claim?

"Looks like you on that road, supportng bathist thugs and terroists."

You're not confusing the UK with the US of the 1980s, are you? When your tax dollars were paying for weaponry that Saddam was using to kill innocent people?

 

[monkeyhead]

http://www.uni-muenster.de/PeaCon/global-texte/g-w/ag-texte/pushwar/rummy-saddam-s.jpg

 

[_pH_]

No problem hitler was a lefty thou, so who many do you think he killed then?

If you can decide stalin wans't a commies, you have to own up to, my right to decide hitler was a lefty.

Like a broken record....

 

[pbman]

Like a broken record....

If he can deny stalin was a communist,i have the right to call hiter whatever i want.

And really it doesn't matter if stalin was a commie or not, commies are the ones who are responsible for him taking power, as usual they were beyond nieve, in safegards to prevent dictators taking complet power.

So communists can't run away or deny stalin.

 

[lewislewis]

Don't think its 'sick' at all- as other posters said its just like visiting Auschwitz etc, the article makes out that its being sold as a fun tourist destination, but its clearly more for educational/historical interest.

 

[nino_savatte]

Theirs a difference, you are a commie, and i'm not a socalist like hitlers.

Commies and nazi's are both left wing thugs,as you very well know.

Still playing the same auld broken record peebs? You're a Nazi and make on mistake and your still playing your silly, tired NAZI games like a good little Nazi.