Maccabi Tel Aviv incident, Amsterdam November 2024

[planetgeli]

E2a: According to this thread there have actually now been 3 versions of the report:

Thread by @receipts_lol on Thread Reader App

@receipts_lol: 1/ Who wants to do a compare and contrast? New video: 2/ Original video: 3/ They added this lie, one second in. 4/ They added this lie: "This is simply anti-semitic violence" at 12 seconds...…

threadreaderapp.com

This is real 1984 shit. Wasn't this Winston Smith's actual job?

 

[planetgeli]

It's like Orgreave in reverse.

Aaaarghhhh! We've been caught telling the truth! Change it!

Except with Orgreave it took ? years and a slight acknowledgement. The equivalent of an apology or retraction on the bottom of page 11.

This? Editorial decision. "Didn't mean editorial standards". Immediately.

 

[extra dry]

The traumatised "pogrom victims" return home...

They are all in shock, clearly very high from second hand smoke from all the coffee shops. Disorentated, dehydrated, tired from jet lag, hungry and their team lost, clearly upset after being beaten they regress to their base form.

 

[The39thStep]

Without comment

 

[frogwoman]

Got a couple messages about this yesterday. I'd prefer to wait until there was more info rather than just potentially repeating something that wasn't true

 

[tony.c]

I see some people are saying reprisals/responses from locals were antisemitic. I am more inclined to think that people, particularly Arabs, were enraged and not without due cause. This vid is when Maccabi Tel Aviv fans visited The Netherlands previously:

'@ireallyhateyou

"The Rape Song"Here's another Maccabi Tel Aviv fan song, from the last time Maccabi Tel Aviv fans visited The Netherlands. It's a hate song against the team's biggest rival in Israel, Hapoel Tel Aviv (who's considered a "leftist" team).

The name of the song, according to the Maccabipedia fan website, is
"The Rape Song" and the lyrics are really fucked up:

"You act like you're so radical
Singing songs about the holocaust
And think it's cool to renounce the state
You're the Arabs' wh*res
We are ashamed of you
At the end of the day, Gate 5We will f*ck you
We will f*ck you
And then we will drink your blood
In the town's square we will hang every Communist who comes here
We will take your girls who love to party
When we'll rape them we will shout
Today is death, Hapoel
Today is death, Hapoel'

View attachment 450298

source

And here they sing the 'Rape Song' again. I think this is is on last week's visit to Amsterdam.

 

[JimW]

Didn't realise Israel are scheduled to play France in Paris Thursday, should imagine that's got potential to go sideways: Paris will deploy 4,000 police officers for France-Israel soccer match following Amsterdam violence

 

[teqniq]

Didn't realise Israel are scheduled to play France in Paris Thursday, should imagine that's got potential to go sideways: Paris will deploy 4,000 police officers for France-Israel soccer match following Amsterdam violence

I notice they have a link in the article that says 'violence against Israeli fans' which links to:

Israeli soccer fans were attacked in Amsterdam. The violence was condemned as antisemitic

Dutch authorities say people on scooters attacked Israeli fans overnight after a soccer game in Amsterdam apparently fueled by calls to target Jewish people spread online.

apnews.com

not biased at all, oh no.

meanwhile this vid has appeared of the Maccabi Tel Aviv supporters singing that song I posted upthread while they were in Amsterdam this time. No wonder the locals were pissed off:

View attachment ssstwitter.com_1731279616466.mp4

source

 

[Sasaferrato]

From reading the press accounts from both sides of the political spectrum:

If the paper is leftist, the Israeli fans are to blame.

If the paper is rightist the Israeli fans were attacked for simply being Israeli.

The truth no doubt, as always, is somewhere in the middle, i.e. completely unacceptable behaviour from both sides.

 

[The39thStep]

From reading the press accounts from both sides of the political spectrum:

If the paper is leftist, the Israeli fans are to blame.

If the paper is rightist the Israeli fans were attacked for simply being Israeli.

The truth no doubt, as always, is somewhere in the middle, i.e. completely unacceptable behaviour from both sides.

What was the reason that Arabs were attacked?

 

[brogdale]

Guardian attempting to offer their definitive timeline:

What happened in Amsterdam involving Israeli football fans?

tl/dr? Well, basically the initial reports of the order being "fuck around, find out" seems correct, according to this paper.

 

[hitmouse]

As a minor sidenote on this story, I keep seeing stories mentioning what the King of the Netherlands has to say and thinking "who asked him, what kind of ridiculous country even has a king nowadays?" And then I belatedly remember I am in fact a subject of a crown myself, fml.

 

[little_legs]

‎France bans raising Palestinian flag in match with Israel‎

‎The Paris police chief announced that the Palestinian flag will not be raised at the soccer match between France and Israel, which will be played amid tight security measures next Thursday.‎

‎He said the match would be played amid tight security and would only be allowed to raise the French and Israeli flags during the match.‎

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

The Danish prime minister actually had a televised speech about the poor hooligans.
They put a 16 year old girl to prison last week for commenting “yes” after October 7th on a newspaper’s Facebook comments.
These are not good people

 

[TopCat]

‎France bans raising Palestinian flag in match with Israel‎

‎The Paris police chief announced that the Palestinian flag will not be raised at the soccer match between France and Israel, which will be played amid tight security measures next Thursday.‎

‎He said the match would be played amid tight security and would only be allowed to raise the French and Israeli flags during the match.‎

See how well that goes for them.

 

[Dogsauce]

Can we charter one of those banner-towing planes to do a few circuits with a giant one? That’d be worth a few quid in a crowdfunder.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Can we charter one of those banner-towing planes to do a few circuits with a giant one? That’d be worth a few quid in a crowdfunder.

flying above paris is not allowed though, so fines a plenty if you found a taker.

 

[pbsmooth]

And here they sing the 'Rape Song' again. I think this is is on last week's visit to Amsterdam.

not a reliable account, which is in line with this thread and the difficulty of reporting nowadays.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

I think this report makes clear the events and the media distortion.

 

[little_legs]

Maccabi Tel Aviv's fixture against Besiktas will now be played in "neutral" Hungary. Looks like it'll be behind closed doors.

 

[hitmouse]

not a reliable account, which is in line with this thread and the difficulty of reporting nowadays.

Yeah, I had been thinking that it's difficult because this is a story where most of the participants speak Dutch and Hebrew, so for people who don't speak fluent Hebrew we have to rely on translations for any offensive chanting. Having said that, if anyone wants to try investigating Maccabi fan culture as presented by their own fans, you can have a look around the Maccabipedia site:
www.maccabipedia.co.il

Running some stuff through an automatic translator does indeed find:

שיר:תנו לצה"ל לנצח

www-maccabipedia-co-il.translate.goog

שיר:שיר האונס

www-maccabipedia-co-il.translate.goog

Not great translations, but they do seem to back up what we've seen said about the contents of Maccabi chants.

 

[The39thStep]

Maccabi Tel Aviv's fixture against Besiktas will now be played in "neutral" Hungary. Looks like it'll be behind closed doors.

Seems entirely logical to remove any home advantage from Besiktas who had absolutely nothing to do with the behaviour of Maccabi fans in Amsterdam.

 

[pbsmooth]

‘The media lied!’ seems a bit OTT and perhaps deliberate from, erm, media organisations who want to be seen as separate from The Media aka the old legacy media.

I remember looking at the BBC breaking news story the morning after the match and they had balance to their reporting from the off. It had clearly become news because the Dutch police were reporting on a night of violence, which seems to be largely one way, but there were reports and interviews with people suggesting that Maccabi fans had been up to no good first… Which seems to be what happened.

The news doesn’t always present itself in chronological order all neatly formed. We demand 24/7 news but the trade off with that is journalists are going to be forced to rush to deliver a story and chain of events. Suggesting a great crime has been committed if news outlets update the order of events and what happened as more information reveals itself seems unhelpful. There’s an extra irony when the same people jumping down the throats of ‘old media’ will happily share any old video from social media posted by MrBigBanana as if it’s gospel.

Having been on many football away trips, tearing down of flags and even setting fire to flags really isn’t uncommon. Nor is offensive chanting. That’s not to excuse the behaviour but to explain why I wouldn’t expect to see it reported every time on the news. But a seemingly organised series of attacks coordinated by taxi drivers etc is a bit more noteworthy.

It now seems clear the Maccabi fans were arseholes and asking for it - and then they got it. But suggesting a great cover up or crime by the media seems unfounded.

 

[little_legs]

Seems entirely logical to remove any home advantage from Besiktas who had absolutely nothing to do with the behaviour of Maccabi fans in Amsterdam.

Apparently it's because Turkey refused to host the game.

 

[mojo pixy]

Yeah, I had been thinking that it's difficult because this is a story where most of the participants speak Dutch and Hebrew, so for people who don't speak fluent Hebrew we have to rely on translations for any offensive chanting. Having said that, if anyone wants to try investigating Maccabi fan culture as presented by their own fans, you can have a look around the Maccabipedia site:
www.maccabipedia.co.il

Running some stuff through an automatic translator does indeed find:

שיר:תנו לצה"ל לנצח

www-maccabipedia-co-il.translate.goog

שיר:שיר האונס

www-maccabipedia-co-il.translate.goog

Not great translations, but they do seem to back up what we've seen said about the contents of Maccabi chants.

Maccabi Tel Aviv fans are known for being troublemakers, for infamously disgusting and racist songs, and in Israel widely regarded as a bad lot. Their ground used to be near Tel Aviv university and I heard students up there often got abuse from maccabi fans.

 

[Gramsci]

I think this report makes clear the events and the media distortion.

So the first Sky news report was balanced.

That was pulled and replaced with one that wasn't. That framed from the start this was anti Semitic violence.

Its not so much distortion as someone in Sky news pulling a balanced report and replacing it with one that was completely different.

One can only wonder why

This wasn't about the difficulties of 24 / 7 reporting this was an editorial decision by Sky media.

Good fair report by Novara media imo.

Also checked David Lammy X ( which Novara media quoted). Given he made it in haste fair enough. But cannot see any later posts by him qualifying his earlier assumptions of what happened.

`

 

[CNT36]

So the first Sky news report was balanced.

That was pulled and replaced with one that wasn't. That framed from the start this was anti Semitic violence.

Its not so much distortion as someone in Sky news pulling a balanced report and replacing it with one that was completely different.

One can only wonder why

This wasn't about the difficulties of 24 / 7 reporting this was an editorial decision by Sky media.

Good fair report by Novara media imo.

Also checked David Lammy X ( which Novara media quoted). Given he made it in haste fair enough. But cannot see any later posts by him qualifying his earlier assumptions of what happened.

`

There's nothing in the Lammy tweet that's wrong is there? There were antisemitic attacks. They're only part of what happened but they happened.

 

[teqniq]

There's nothing there that's wring is there? There were antisemitic attacks. They're only part of what happened but they happened.

There is everything wrong with what Sky news did. They completely changed the narrative from what was a fairly accurate initial report in to one, which tipped the scales towards the whole thing being broadly antisemitic in nature. Have you looked at the thread unrolls I posted to see what they actually did? Did you look at the Youitube vid with the kid called Bender?

 

[CNT36]

There is everything wrong with what Sky news did. They completely changed the narrative from what was a fairly accurate initial report in to one, which tipped the scales towards the whole thing being broadly antisemitic in nature. Have you looked at the thread unrolls I posted to see what they actually did? Did you look at the Youitube vid with the kid called Bender?

Yeah, done that. I was only referring to the Lammy tweet at the bottom which I should have specified (and will edit to do so).

 

[Gramsci]

There's nothing in the Lammy tweet that's wrong is there? There were antisemitic attacks. They're only part of what happened but they happened.

Haven't seen David Lammy post up anything later. When the actual fuller picture emerged.