Maccabi Tel Aviv incident, Amsterdam November 2024

[Cloo]

I think it can be true that the Israeli fans were being wankers and the attack on them was antisemitic

 

[A380]

I think it can be true that the Israeli fans were being wankers and the attack on them was antisemitic

This ^^^

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I think it can be true that the Israeli fans were being wankers and the attack on them was antisemitic

I agree with this but also 'being wankers' doesn't really capture being aggressively, violently racist which is apparently how they behaved.

 

[cloudyday]

Not really a pogrom, is it. The razzia wasn't a violent anti-Jewish riot. This is a different sort of atrocity.

Fair point, they are different sorts of atrocities. That this event is even being labelled by various politicians and press as being close to either is the trivialising of those atrocities.

 

[PursuedByBears]

Seems like football fans abroad tbh. And I do think the reprisals were anti-Semitic.

 

[Cloo]

I dislike intensely people using 'pogrom' as a default description of any attack on Jews. Some Jews have started to use it for 7 October, which is gross to my mind because I see pogrom as an attack on a vulnerable group for no reason other than their existence, and usually one that is committed or permitted by the authorities. Also, it's one that is intended to make people feel unsafe in the place where they live and to drive them out - which you can't do in a place where they are visiting, as is the case with Amsterdam.

 

[teqniq]

Opinions of some locals who admittedly seem broadly pro-Palestinian:

View attachment ssstwitter.com_1731097171539.mp4

View attachment ssstwitter.com_1731154953071.mp4

 

[brogdale]

I think it can be true that the Israeli fans were being wankers and the attack on them was antisemitic

I think that has to be a possibility, yes.

But as Monkeygrinder's Organ suggests above, the actions of some of the MTA "fans" does put the reaction from the Amsterdamers in a different perspective. I think most people on here appear able to separate the actions of the Israeli state from the people of Israel (and Jews elsewhere), but when these "fans" directly and overtly aligned with and glorified the human rights abuses being committed by their state against the people of Gaza, it's difficult to read the violent response provoked simply as antisemitic.

I do accept that, for some involved in the post-match afters, Jew-hatred may have been their motivation for the violence, but the deliberately provocative, racist and violent conduct of some of the visiting fans makes it very difficult to conclude that antisemitism was the main driver.

Had these "fans" turned up and peaceably followed their team without resorting to needlessly upsetting, racist and violent conduct, any attacks on them would, indeed, look antisemitic in nature.

 

[teqniq]

I see some people are saying reprisals/responses from locals were antisemitic. I am more inclined to think that people, particularly Arabs, were enraged and not without due cause. This vid is when Maccabi Tel Aviv fans visited The Netherlands previously:

'@ireallyhateyou

"The Rape Song"Here's another Maccabi Tel Aviv fan song, from the last time Maccabi Tel Aviv fans visited The Netherlands. It's a hate song against the team's biggest rival in Israel, Hapoel Tel Aviv (who's considered a "leftist" team).

The name of the song, according to the Maccabipedia fan website, is
"The Rape Song" and the lyrics are really fucked up:

"You act like you're so radical
Singing songs about the holocaust
And think it's cool to renounce the state
You're the Arabs' wh*res
We are ashamed of you
At the end of the day, Gate 5We will f*ck you
We will f*ck you
And then we will drink your blood
In the town's square we will hang every Communist who comes here
We will take your girls who love to party
When we'll rape them we will shout
Today is death, Hapoel
Today is death, Hapoel'

View attachment ssstwitter.com_1731098973564.mp4

source

 

[polly]

I think there's a lot of latent antisemitism still lurking that will erupt and jump on a bandwagon wherever it can, but that doesn't mean any event during which cunts behave antisemitically should be wholly attributed to antisemitism.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Has the Israeli state apologised yet for the behaviour of these football fans in the same way it was willing to criticise citizens of the Netherlands?

 

[oryx]

For anyone who didn't know, it's worth mentioning that the Maccabi fans were also tragedy chanting about the recent flooding in Spain.

 

[brogdale]

This media outlet claims that Israeli football fans were continuing their charm offensive last night...



Looks like they need to get hold of less fire resistant flags, tbh.

 

[The39thStep]

Memory lapse

 

[teqniq]

Memory lapse

Regarding the behaviour of the media over this these tweets from Sangita Myska are pretty much on the ball imo - and from someone who hasn't exactly been treated fairly herself:

 

[geminisnake]

seen this on FB a few times now

 

[Pickman's model]

seen this on FB a few times now

Could you screenshot it so I can see it too?

 

[tommers]

Could you screenshot it so I can see it too?

View attachment 450348

 

[geminisnake]

Thank you tommers

PS I don't want the Isreali team anywhere near Glasgow because I genuinely believe it would be a blood bath

 

[tommers]

Thank you tommers

I only did it cos I hoped it would create one of those ever decreasing image things but it didn't. Nvm.

 

[agricola]

Regarding the behaviour of the media over this these tweets from Sangita Myska are pretty much on the ball imo - and from someone who hasn't exactly been treated fairly herself:

View attachment 450331

View attachment 450332

I can see her point, but I think she's treating her former colleagues far too leniently here.

This wasnt a riot where there are multiple perspectives and narratives that the media get access to at different times, this was a fairly common sort of event where visiting fans do something bad and then the local fans have a pop back after the game when they have enough people. Far from "it wouldn't happen here", it would absolutely have happened here, and in Spain, Italy, Germany, Russia, Ukraine and I dare say in Israel if visiting fans had done something similar as well.

The media honestly reported on what had gone on in this incident up to the point where the bad faith actors she cites opened their mouths; then it became a mix of overblown rhetoric and some fairly naked racism against those held responsible.

 

[mojo pixy]

Fuck Maccabbi

Agree. Hapoel every day.

 

[Serge Forward]

seen this on FB a few times now

Can't see owt

 

[Nigel]

Looks like the Zionist Filth got the kicking they deserve.
Well done AFC Ajax fans and ultras giving these scum the kicking they deserve and Moroccan Arab Youth and others for defending themselves and going on the offensive!

With regards anti semitism and racism against Jewish people I see nothing of Synagogues, Jewish businesses, anyt epitaphs, tourist destinations such as Ann Frank Museum being attacked or any realistic accounts of Jewish people being targeted, which would be a bit odd if this was the case.
Obviously there may be some idiots and elements of the far right who may have used or will use this opportunity, however this seems to be marginally insignificant in this case!

Is there any support group from people arrested and/or soon to be imprisoned, any welfare group to donate to them?

 

[Nigel]

Agree. Hapoel every day.

View attachment 450358

Found this on Hapoel FC.
Seems quite a good write up.
FLAF appear to be very critical politically of you though.

“Representing Hapoel, Not Israel”: Hapoel Tel Aviv Fans Alternate Between Local and National Identification

“‘Representing Hapoel, Not Israel’: Hapoel Tel Aviv Fans Alternate between Local and National Identification”, discusses the tension between national and local identities and practices experienced by the fans of this club. It highlights the...

link.springer.com

 

[teqniq]

Memory lapse

Sky News have really made themselves look completely awful with this. Now they have published an amended report with edits emphasizing antisemitism:

Thread by @marcowenjones on Thread Reader App

@marcowenjones: 🧵🚨1/ This is nuts. After mysteriously deleting a package covering the Amsterdam protests, Sky News have put up a new version. The new version completely changes the thrust to emphasise that the viole...…

threadreaderapp.com

E2a: According to this thread there have actually now been 3 versions of the report:

Thread by @receipts_lol on Thread Reader App

@receipts_lol: 1/ Who wants to do a compare and contrast? New video: 2/ Original video: 3/ They added this lie, one second in. 4/ They added this lie: "This is simply anti-semitic violence" at 12 seconds...…

threadreaderapp.com

 

[Riklet]

Lol antisemtic when a bunch of right wing Israeli football fans chanting "death to Arabs" get a deserved kicking. Fuck the cunts. It's good to see them be made unwelcome frankly.

A lot of Israelis abroad are pretty abrasive and unfriendly at the best of times so you can only imagine what that lot were like.

 

[zahir]

https://nitter.poast.org/nkulw/status/1854926895046943060#m

Israeli soldiers blow up homes in Gaza this morning, in revenge for the events in Amsterdam the two past days.
“We dedicate this explosion to all the fans of Maccabi Tel Aviv. We’ll get to all of you, you sons of **”

 

[brogdale]

Pretty much...

 

[mojo pixy]

Found this on Hapoel FC.
Seems quite a good write up.
FLAF appear to be very critical politically of you though.

“Representing Hapoel, Not Israel”: Hapoel Tel Aviv Fans Alternate Between Local and National Identification

“‘Representing Hapoel, Not Israel’: Hapoel Tel Aviv Fans Alternate between Local and National Identification”, discusses the tension between national and local identities and practices experienced by the fans of this club. It highlights the...

link.springer.com

Yes, HaPoel has a lot of arab-israeli fans and has always been hard Left affiliated, so just now more than ever I think questions of identity there are .. quite complicated.