SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Lol, really? Oh dear.
Spoke to a few people who voted TUSC in the locals but wouldn't vote for her.
lefty party predictions
- Thread starter frogwoman
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Lol, really? Oh dear.
Spoke to a few people who voted TUSC in the locals but wouldn't vote for her.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
And yet she still got the best vote
"I voted for TUSC, I'd like one on the council, but not for them to run it" was what on of my colleagues told me yesterday
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Yeah, she's run in that seat for the longest.
That quote is amazing. I'd say it is how people see us - they'd like us to be a voice on the council but aren't convinced about a bunch of trots running the city. I don't think you can expect more than that to be honest.
That quote is amazing. I'd say it is how people see us - they'd like us to be a voice on the council but aren't convinced about a bunch of trots running the city. I don't think you can expect more than that to be honest.
I think you just proved his point. That wanker's party, even if they do very badly, will poll 10-15pc of the poll in Spain in Nov, maybe a fair bit more than that. Already 5 MEPs. Podemos (nor Syriza) aren't some kind of miracle, the people in it aren't superhumans or saints, but it has and will have some political power. That is the aim, power. Power and winning are all that matter.
TUSC and Left Unity - sadly, I joined LU and hoped for better - are losers. I'm sure there are many decent people in them, like there are in all left wing organisations I would imagine. Even all the angry abusive leftists on Urban75 if I ever met them I'm sure would all be decent folk.
But losing and being losers is part of the problem. `Vote for us, we are very nice losers`. Not going to work.
And for clarity, I don't have a magic book with answers in it. I'm not writing about me and how clever I am, there is a good reason for that, I'm not. But the people who run our varied left wing groups absolutely, certainly do not have the answers.
If I was a leader of a left wing party and had stood and got 192 votes ~1pc of the turnout eight years after the biggest economic downturn since a world war I would be very certain I had really fucked up. This doesn't appear to be the case. Sorry.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I genuinely don't understand where you've got this idea from that just because there's been an economic crisis that that means thousands upon thousands of people are suddenly going to vote for revolutionary Socialists.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
because it should be that its only the revolutionaries that can offer a coherent explanation for the crisis. In previous crises you have usually seen a growth of the left for precisely that reason. And we've seen it in various countries around the world this time.
In the UK tho, the left has performed abysmally, shrunk in size and influence, and got laughably bad results. To pretend otherwise is burying your head in the sand.
lol
You could equally have posted a photo of any other elected politician past or present that you like no?
I think we've seen recently and through history that big economic crises (and wars) often give opportunities to political parties from outside the established ones at the time. After the financial crisis some parties have capitalised on that within the EU, quite a lot from the right, some from the left.
I don't sadly think that has been the case in the UK with the left parties. It says something - to me at least - is wrong with tactics, policy, presentation and so on.
Blagsta: what did they mean by `our culture`?
Because the far-left have had major success in electoral politics over the last 70 years...
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Very "small c conservative" of them.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
It's hard to categorise the TUSC's efforts as anything other than a total disaster.
It's a great pity and had I lived in England probably I would have supported the local candidate. But...just seems to be another iteration of the same failed strategy.
It's a great pity and had I lived in England probably I would have supported the local candidate. But...just seems to be another iteration of the same failed strategy.
The problem with voting for them is it only encourages them
Haven't got time to check, 4 minutes to bus time, but how did Tom Woodcock do in Cambridge? I believe he stood for TUSC there. My brother would have voted for him -- he's locally well liked in the Mill Road area especially, and has been active on the Cambridge left for years.
no TUSC candidate there
That is indeed a mega facepalm.
I read (again) the Left Unity economic policy document (so you don't have to
) and then I read Ukip's (ditto).While people may not agree with Ukip their economic policy, the first policy item in their manifesto, was obviously the subject of some degree of hard work and detail. It is costed, like they said, it has specific policy ideas (tax thresholds, savings from X, spending on Y) that are fleshed out in reasonable detail and so on. Left Unity's has a series of aspirations, `end zero hours contracts/reverse privatisation` none of which are costed. It is a wish list but even someone sympathetic to them would read it and go, how? Left Unity's document seems totally detached from now. Today. A 35 hour working week? How exactly?
At the heart of every successful political party is coherent economics. It should be the heart of the left as well. It should come before everything else, even law and order. Jobs + order = security.
There are left wing academic economists who can do this kind of work...
Edit to add...LU's policy was written in March 2014...not sure that inspires much confidence.
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co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
In which case you should join the Conservative Party.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Aside from a somewhat predictable but optimistic conclusion of ' we may have lost the vote but we won a lot of arguements' Is there actually any future for TUSC?
I refer you to my earlier post from the "wanker" Iglesias.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
not if they have any sense. Which makes it 50/50
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
If you think the UKIP manifesto was properly costed you are incredibly gullible, it was full of figures essentially plucked from thin air and bundled together very prettily. LU's was far broader, because it isnt pretending it will be a part of government, but was actually still more coherent. If you can't work out how a 35 hour working week is possible, given levels of unemployment, part-time working etc, then god help you.That is indeed a mega facepalm.
I read (again) the Left Unity economic policy document (so you don't have to
While people may not agree with Ukip their economic policy, the first policy item in their manifesto, was obviously the subject of some degree of hard work and detail. It is costed, like they said, it has specific policy ideas (tax thresholds, savings from X, spending on Y) that are fleshed out in reasonable detail and so on. Left Unity's has a series of aspirations, `end zero hours contracts/reverse privatisation` none of which are costed. It is a wish list but even someone sympathetic to them would read it and go, how? Left Unity's document seems totally detached from now. Today. A 35 hour working week? How exactly?
At the heart of every successful political party is coherent economics. It should be the heart of the left as well. It should come before everything else, even law and order. Jobs + order = security.
There are left wing academic economists who can do this kind of work...
Edit to add...LU's policy was written in March 2014...not sure that inspires much confidence.
So the voter should "work it out"? 
What is the mechanism for bringing it in? How does it affect people working long hours/two jobs/three jobs? How would it be implemented for the millions of sole traders? What about SMEs? How will they be hit? Are there sanctions for working more than 35 hours? I guess you'll tell me all that as you have 'worked it out'. Do you know how it works in France? Any clues? Is the 35 hour week applied to every worker in the country? I guess you already know that right?
I'm not supporting Ukip's economic policy, or its numbers - which are largely predicated on leaving the EU - but they are there. Not only that but their policies were written for their manifesto, not over a year ago...have a look yourself.
What is the mechanism for bringing it in? How does it affect people working long hours/two jobs/three jobs? How would it be implemented for the millions of sole traders? What about SMEs? How will they be hit? Are there sanctions for working more than 35 hours? I guess you'll tell me all that as you have 'worked it out'. Do you know how it works in France? Any clues? Is the 35 hour week applied to every worker in the country? I guess you already know that right?I'm not supporting Ukip's economic policy, or its numbers - which are largely predicated on leaving the EU - but they are there. Not only that but their policies were written for their manifesto, not over a year ago...have a look yourself.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
That quote seems to say nothing except that 'being right (whatever that means) and losing is silly'. If "power and winning is all that matters" as you say above, why not just go with the winners? Sign up to neo-liberalism and join a party that represents that pov.
I get your point, thanks.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Those numbers aren't rally there at all (the UKIP ones) . They have a small number of headline figures that do not add up to a coherent picture. Just enough to con the gullible, like, it seems, you.So the voter should "work it out"?
I'm not supporting Ukip's economic policy, or its numbers - which are largely predicated on leaving the EU - but they are there. Not only that but their policies were written for their manifesto, not over a year ago...have a look yourself.
The LU plan contains far more detail about a different way of running the world, not just pissing about with some peripheral tax details. The people who might possibly vote for a radical left alternative are not, overwhelmingly, concerned about whether the manifesto has been approved by a bunch of accountants, it's about the ideas and changing the way the world is run. To that end, there is plenty enough info about the, incredibly conservative, 35 hour working week desire. If you cant see that, well, that's your problem and the best solution to it would probably be for you to join the Labour Party and campaign for Andy Burnham
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