Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

lefty party predictions

belboid said:
Naah, I'm talking about being actively involved in 'organised' left wing groups and campaigns. And they've fallen. As have the number of people taking part in strike action. There is an extent to which support for lefty ideas has grown, but that hasn't translated into people taking part in action, or, seemingly, believing its possible these days.
Click to expand...

No, but you won't see those ideas translated into action until people have collectively re-learnt that simply voting isn't going to change anything. It's a process, it's moving forward, nobody said very quickly.
 
SpackleFrog said:
No, but you won't see those ideas translated into action until people have collectively re-learnt that simply voting isn't going to change anything. It's a process, it's moving forward, nobody said very quickly.
Click to expand...
but they did say 'forward,' which is, to be generous, highly debatable.

You going to that hing at the university with Alistair & Pete Green next saturday?
 
belboid said:
they'll have been the same few people standing for ages and ages too. Built up a small but not abysmal vote that will keep with them til they die.
Click to expand...

Not sure - my partners mum stands for them, they are purely paper candidates and I don't think they care who stands where.
 
Coolfonz said:
That is indeed a mega facepalm.

I read (again) the Left Unity economic policy document (so you don't have to ;) ) and then I read Ukip's (ditto).

While people may not agree with Ukip their economic policy, the first policy item in their manifesto, was obviously the subject of some degree of hard work and detail. It is costed, like they said, it has specific policy ideas (tax thresholds, savings from X, spending on Y) that are fleshed out in reasonable detail and so on. Left Unity's has a series of aspirations, `end zero hours contracts/reverse privatisation` none of which are costed. It is a wish list but even someone sympathetic to them would read it and go, how? Left Unity's document seems totally detached from now. Today. A 35 hour working week? How exactly?

At the heart of every successful political party is coherent economics. It should be the heart of the left as well. It should come before everything else, even law and order. Jobs + order = security.

There are left wing academic economists who can do this kind of work...

Edit to add...LU's policy was written in March 2014...not sure that inspires much confidence.
Click to expand...

Tbf, lots of the Greens policies weren't costed, pie in the sky, it takes time to build a party up, LU were doing some things right, but the old guard still seems to hold sway.
 
treelover said:
Just saw this, what on earth do you mean, and why not respond to my point, about priorities, you are magnificent failures, some humility is needed here, not shooting messengers.
Click to expand...

My point is your comment seemed totally off topic (as usual) and you didn't explain why you made it (as usual).

But I guess the broader point was that when you post here I get the distinct impression I'm trying to communicate with non-human life.
 
My point was about the priorities of the left, an example:, I don't think the SWP have ever called a demonstration about benefit cuts, nor set up a 'front' on the issues, I make these claims frequently, but that is because such inaction has severe consequences, (see remembrance thread above)
 
I meant the failure to mount an effective broad based campaign on the benefit cuts/sanctions, etc.that included highlighting the casualties, is that more clear?
 
treelover said:
I meant the failure to mount an effective broad based campaign on the benefit cuts/sanctions, etc.that included highlighting the casualties, is that more clear?
Click to expand...

Yes.

...but what's that got to do with the SWP?

I'm sure you've, understandably, posted before about the negative effects that the SWP often had on broader campaigns?
 
treelover said:
My point was about the priorities of the left, an example:, I don't think the SWP have ever called a demonstration about benefit cuts, nor set up a 'front' on the issues, I make these claims frequently, but that is because such inaction has severe consequences, (see remembrance thread above)
Click to expand...

The SWP have called lots of demo's about benefit cuts. What's this got to do with anything?
 
11111123_647558268709086_1474783322916423610_o.jpg

On Thursday 14th May 1000 people gathered in central London talk about the future of the radical left. While the meeting wasn't perfect, the energy was incredible. Three new community assemblies formed from the meeting, and a 'Reclaim Hackney' group.
https://www.facebook.com/events/878369498902463/
Click to expand...

Anyway, something stirring?, 1000 people at a radical left gathering in London?
 
treelover said:
That view is only 2/3's I think

any comment on the event, I think they have another one this saturday
Click to expand...
It's definitely the whole room, look at the angle of the stage to the audience. However if we are to be charitable to the organisers that is presumably just one plenary and people would have been coming and going throughout the day.
 
treelover said:
Tbf, lots of the Greens policies weren't costed, pie in the sky, it takes time to build a party up, LU were doing some things right, but the old guard still seems to hold sway.
Click to expand...
Actually they pretty much were all costed, as detailed in the back of the manifesto budgets section.

Some of the costings were complete bollocks mind, such as the costings for building half a million new houses, which were nothing like what they should have been - which was completely pointless given that the rent paid by the tenants would more than offset the costs of repaying the 30 year gilt taken out to pay for the building programme anyway.... which in turn indicated that someone doing the figures really hadn't grasped these sorts of concepts and was still attempting to justify things economically based on the neoliberal austerity rule book, rather than actually understanding that this should have been a clear alternative approach to economics. That's why Natalie Bennet floundered so much when asked how they'd afford this programme, it's a fucking simple question to answer unless you go tying yourself in knots trying to justify the costings from actual current annual revenues.
 
Economics have to be at the heart of any future left party/movement. Not pie in the sky aspirations but actual policies about today, which give people better wages, and more security without promising a string of wish lists everyone knows you could never afford/carry out.
I don't see it anywhere in the UK.
 
Coolfonz said:
Economics have to be at the heart of any future left party/movement. Not pie in the sky aspirations but actual policies about today, which give people better wages, and more security without promising a string of wish lists everyone knows you could never afford/carry out.
I don't see it anywhere in the UK.
Click to expand...

The problem with that is that even the mildest, most wishy-washy nod towards social democracy is greeted with howls of outrage from the media and capital sees no need to budge on inch when it is so clearly winning.

When we have the muscle and momentum to win these little things, we'll also have a lot more to gain.

So you're in the realm of "transitional demands" again...

...and round and round (and round and round) we go.
 
Coolfonz said:
Economics have to be at the heart of any future left party/movement. Not pie in the sky aspirations but actual policies about today, which give people better wages, and more security without promising a string of wish lists everyone knows you could never afford/carry out.
I don't see it anywhere in the UK.
Click to expand...
Bit hard to when your head is so far up your arse
 
The thing with threads like this is the same points occur again and again.

There are no shortcuts. Yes, the branding is usually shit and really, really should be done better. Yes, the slogans are just that, rather than more concretely articulated policies. And yes, the name is wrong. And yes, the language is archaic. All of this could easily, and therefore should, change. It's not the answer though.

Electoral politics takes time. No party has appeared out of nowhere and maintained success. People need to stick at it.

There is a blueprint. If you choose to accept it. "Dogshit politics" and regular newsletters about the cleaning up of said dogshit. The Lib Dems, the Greens and even (briefly) the BNP have all proved this.

Join the Greens. Save yourselves a decade or two of grunt work and join a Party that's already a way along the road. Sure, they're no revolutionaries, but this is electoral politics we're talking about remember? If getting elected is your aim (rather than gaining a platform, in which case this discussion is largely irrelevant, no?) then the Greens are your answer.

That's it. The uncomfortable truth. In my humble opinion of course. But I'm sure we'll be here again come the next round of lost deposits from the same few hundred people under yet another banner. Oh well :)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Kid_Eternity
Collective - new left wing party?
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
154
Views
6K
PR1Berske
PR1Berske
B
Annals of the Green Party
2
Replies
32
Views
1K
Funky_monks
F
tim
Anyone worried about the UK becoming a one party state?
2
Replies
54
Views
3K
Kid_Eternity
Kid_Eternity
P
Is the Tory Era Over? Farage Predicts Massive Shift to Reform
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
153
Views
8K
Monkeygrinder's Organ
M
chilango
Transform: The latest "new party of the Left.
8 9 10 11 12
Replies
333
Views
16K
Dom Traynor
Dom Traynor
Back
Top Bottom