Look - this bit of conversation happened A WEEK ago:
A WEEK!
But you’re still arguing the point today that I really mean white when I say working class.
It’s tedious as fuck.
knife violence and murders among youth
- Thread starter DotCommunist
- Start date
Look - this bit of conversation happened A WEEK ago:
A WEEK!
But you’re still arguing the point today that I really mean white when I say working class.
It’s tedious as fuck.
Treacle Toes
Time
Yes you denied doing it a week ago. You then went on to do it again. You keep doing it. You also keep positioning yourself as an authority of what the WC do/think/are from other perspectives and dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as a liberal or MC too. Tedious as fuck as you say.
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Actually best I just put you on ignore.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
In Birmingham there isnt a ‘white working class community’ any more. Given immigration patterns into the city it’s arguable that there hasn’t been for a long time. And even when the place was white it was made up of Irish, Welsh and others who moved here to work in the factories.
It’s so self evident that having to even make the point is fucking annoying.
For the last time - this is about working class communities, of all hues, and the lumpen and liberal opposition.
The gang dynamic is directly counter to our interests. They are subject to the same external conditions and pressures as we are but set themselves apart by their response.
Treacle Toes
Time
What none at all?
British white people set to become a minority in Birmingham
So these workers that you describe as 'Irish, Welsh and others' who worked in factories were not WC either?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Rutita1 youve asked two questions here:
1. There are a lot of white working class people in Birmingham. The point I was making, as I suspect you know, is that they live, love, drink, work in multi ethnic communities and workplaces. There isn’t a ‘whites only’ othering of predominately black gangs here. I suspect London is exactly the same.
2. Your second question makes no sense. The point I was making is simple. In every working class community in Birmingham there are people who come from everywhere or their families do. The majority- subject to the same pressures, exploitation, shit futures, precarious work etc etc - do not respond by stabbing, shooting, terrorising their own or living a life of arrid individualism.
For pro working class politics to succeed - at some point - the militant wing of lumpenism will need to be confronted. At present, preventing it from overwhelming parts of our city is important.
1. There are a lot of white working class people in Birmingham. The point I was making, as I suspect you know, is that they live, love, drink, work in multi ethnic communities and workplaces. There isn’t a ‘whites only’ othering of predominately black gangs here. I suspect London is exactly the same.
2. Your second question makes no sense. The point I was making is simple. In every working class community in Birmingham there are people who come from everywhere or their families do. The majority- subject to the same pressures, exploitation, shit futures, precarious work etc etc - do not respond by stabbing, shooting, terrorising their own or living a life of arrid individualism.
For pro working class politics to succeed - at some point - the militant wing of lumpenism will need to be confronted. At present, preventing it from overwhelming parts of our city is important.
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Treacle Toes
Time
No I didn't know what you were getting at because it wasn't clear. You have been clearer now by saying 'There isn’t a ‘whites only’...Now you make sense where as before you seemed to be suggesting there were no White Working class people in Brum.
you said:
See above. You weren't clear. You are now.
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purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
Have you never been to Frankley? Or Kings Norton?
Birmingham is extremely racially segregated, I don’t think people realise it but if you work in schools you see it really clearly. I’ve been into schools with no white British children across the entire year group and schools where white faces are all you see.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Don't put words in my mouth, there's a good boy. It makes you look like a fool. Well, more of a fool, anyway.
Oh, and "libertarian communist"? : . You don't have a clue.
GarveyLives
Well-Known Member
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
In the Guardian:
The British state has given up on the children who need it most | Gary Younge
It occurred to me that 'grandparents.com' could be helpful. Older people who would be willing to give their time to mentor youngsters who are having 'directional issues'. I realise that there is no quick fix, but the day I read that article, Master Sas (Grandson) spent a long time with Mrs (Granny) Sas discussing something (If I needed to know, I'd have been told.
). They have a strong bond, and Mrs Sas has a sound head and good moral compass.
Both my grandfathers were gone by the time I was five, grannies ditto, so I didn't ever have that opportunity to discuss things with a close relative, but not my parents.
I expect that I'll now be told that such an organisation already exists.
The British state has given up on the children who need it most | Gary Younge
It occurred to me that 'grandparents.com' could be helpful. Older people who would be willing to give their time to mentor youngsters who are having 'directional issues'. I realise that there is no quick fix, but the day I read that article, Master Sas (Grandson) spent a long time with Mrs (Granny) Sas discussing something (If I needed to know, I'd have been told.
). They have a strong bond, and Mrs Sas has a sound head and good moral compass.Both my grandfathers were gone by the time I was five, grannies ditto, so I didn't ever have that opportunity to discuss things with a close relative, but not my parents.
I expect that I'll now be told that such an organisation already exists.
Stealing workers’ tools in your own community has to be one of the lowest crimes out there besides violence against others.
People with the wrong ethnic quotas taking things into their own hands in Hartlepool in this report:
The town where ‘police don’t come out’
People with the wrong ethnic quotas taking things into their own hands in Hartlepool in this report:
The town where ‘police don’t come out’
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That's a particularly crass and stupid comment.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
That's a particularly crass and stupid comment.
It was also an incredibly inaccurate headline for the article.
God that makes me SO angry. Hartlepool deserves so much better. 10 coppers on a night, and at one point not a single one available to respond to an emergency. How is that safe? How is that even allowed? And crimes like the theft of that man’s tools, with cctv evidence, not even investigated. To all intents and purposes there isn’t a police force. No wonder locals are having to do it themselves. But they’re untrained, have jobs, have no safety backup like radios or even protective gear, have no power. It’s an outrage.
People want a functioning police service. I want to know that if I dial 999 in the middle of the night in an emergency that police will respond, and quickly. It’s what every decent person wants.
That's a particularly crass and stupid comment.
People weren’t saying that earlier in the thread?
Who cares about that though?
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Because if you were lazy enough to glance at that piece, you'd inevitably think that the Police do not come out in Hartlepool. Of course the report actually said that the small number of officers who had to deal with one of the two busiest nights of the week actually had gone out but were overwhelmed by events, as well as the fact that because of cuts they'd lost hundreds of colleagues and had to drive half an hour away every time they nicked someone because their state of the art custody couldn't be opened.
The poor coppers who are left as well. Busting a bloody gut but nothing they can do will be good enough. It’s like working on an understaffed ward. You have to work 100% harder but get almost no job satisfaction cos you just can’t win, you’re literally running from patient to patient just in an effort to keep people safe, but there’s no time to listen, to help, to bloody care.
But I’ve argued that short of community action the authorities should be held to account for not policing effectively.
Perhaps your arguments are best placed towards those who think policing has no place?
Think he’s just quibbling the headline. It should read ‘desperately understaffed and resourced police in Hartlepool work flat out but still can’t provide a safe or functioning service’. I’m not a journalist tho.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Well no, because you posted the piece without a comment on the headline and it appeared as if you were saying that inaction was why those blokes felt the need to patrol their own streets.
Of course. But there’s people on this thread who appear to opt for a ‘no police’ solution so I was adding this to the mix.
Surely the context was this thread rather than the article in some vacuum?
It reflects loads about policing priorities. The fact there’s no police in working class areas down to what they prioritise with what resources they have.
I never know what to say to people who take that line. It just seems so incredibly out of touch with reality.
Absolutely. And poor northern towns are bottom of the list. That’s a lot worse than Leeds I’d imagine. Which in turn will be worse than say Cambridge. At a guess?
It’s out of touch with reality that tool thefts are a given but a small protest against a business heralds a major response?
Sorry, might have misunderstood you.
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