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knife violence and murders among youth

I think we need to have a better acknowledgment that young boys groomed into selling drugs / carrying weapons for gangs etc are being exploited and are victims of abuse. They are cannon fodder for grown men happy to exploit vulnerable kids. These adults are disgusting child abusers, they should be painted as such much more explicitly.
 
I think we need to have a better acknowledgment that young boys groomed into selling drugs / carrying weapons for gangs etc are being exploited and are victims of abuse. They are cannon fodder for grown men happy to exploit vulnerable kids. These adults are disgusting child abusers, they should be painted as such much more explicitly.
interestingly the trafficking laws were use to convict someone running 'county lines' kids no so long ago
 
I think we need to have a better acknowledgment that young boys groomed into selling drugs / carrying weapons for gangs etc are being exploited and are victims of abuse. They are cannon fodder for grown men happy to exploit vulnerable kids. These adults are disgusting child abusers, they should be painted as such much more explicitly.

Trafficking of children & 'county lines' - a new guide for professionals and lawyers working with victims of child criminal exploitation

Children caught up in drugs gangs being failed by police, says Home Office report

Drug dealer who trafficked children jailed
 
I think we need to have a better acknowledgment that young boys groomed into selling drugs / carrying weapons for gangs etc are being exploited and are victims of abuse. They are cannon fodder for grown men happy to exploit vulnerable kids. These adults are disgusting child abusers, they should be painted as such much more explicitly.

I agree with alll that. Though it's important (in terms of not confusing or obscuring the real cause) to recognise a distinction between these cases and others where that terminology is used i.e. sexual exploitation. The recruitment of foot soldiers to drugs gangs is largely economic conscription (for the boys) and the exploitation of labour (for the 'generals'). And, if they weren't selling drugs, those kids would be being ruthlessly exploited in precarious, minimum-wage, zero-hours, non-unionised, dead-end jobs with no hope of e.g. buying a home, or building a pension, if they were 'lucky' enough to get one. They need to be offered a way out of both of types of exploitation that's more than aspiring to become one of the exploiters (since there'll always be more exploited people than exploiters).
 
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I make of it police lobbying for more money for the police. There isnt a problem the police dont think can be solved by more money for the police.
Ex army generals do a good line in this too.

ETA: The police have been cut a lot, and its clear a lot of crime is going uninvestigated, even when theres plenty of evidence.

There is certainly an aspect of that, but it really needs to be appreciated how much has actually been cut over the past ten years (and of course the process is continuing apace).

For example, Lambeth fourteen years ago had three sub-command stations (Streatham, Brixton, Kennington) that response teams worked out of as well as several other subsidary stations (Gipsy Hill, Cavendish Road, even Clapham Road for a brief time)that had SNTs and other units - as well as a considerable number of police staff in the control room, station officers and acting as gaolers which meant that those roles didn't need to be covered by a PC for most of the time.

First the communications staff (which at that time would have been 2 controllers and 6-8 communications officers per shift) went up to what was then Metcall, many of them left, were only partially replaced (by people on worse terms and conditions) and now their functions are covered by one controller and three communications officers (some of whom are police officers because of losses to police staff). Then many of the subsidary stations were sold off, the sub-commands merged and followed eventually by Streatham being sold as well and Kennington closing for most of the time (and being next on the list to go, it seems). Station officers were got rid of (either retired, took voluntary redundancy or accepted worse terms and became PCSOs - though the role has been brought back now) and the gaolers found themselves transferred to the centralized Met Detention command. The loss of police staff was especially crippling because many of the roles they used to fill did not go away and someone (ie: a police officer) had to be found to fill them. Meanwhile the response teams themselves went from having 2-3 Inspectors, 3-6 Sergeants and probably around 50 PCs per shift to about two thirds of that, and had to cover a wider area than before. Now Lambeth itself is being amalgamated with Southwark, seemingly because of the recognition that borough-based policing is financially unsustainable and this is the only way the Met can deliver a similar level of service.

This has happened all over London and apparently things are even worse in the counties. There has been an awful lot of good work and effort put into trying to improve the service that people get from the Police despite these cuts (body-worn video, the recent improvements to 101 and expanding the ways in which people can report things to name three) and many of the officers are working far more than they used to (which is not to say that they were lazy before, more that there was more of the downtime that is a healthy if not fundamental thing in any emergency service), but no organization can continue after sustaining the hits that have been recieved ever since Boris became Mayor in 2008 and the Coalition winning the 2010 GE. Sadly the results are now becoming obvious to all.
 
Since when have they needed reasonable grounds? Serious question.
You fit the description, or I saw you acting suspiciously by that car you walked past seem to work without any trouble all these years

The contention is racial profiling. So anyone who is black gets stopped and searched by virtue of being black.
But like I suggested earlier- they’re able to identify political activists and insert officers into their lives, yet don’t have the resources or political will to identify and crush the gangs. And the reason is they care far more about any threat to the status quo than they do the living conditions of working class communities.
 
The contention is racial profiling. So anyone who is black gets stopped and searched by virtue of being black.
But like I suggested earlier- they’re able to identify political activists and insert officers into their lives, yet don’t have the resources or political will to identify and crush the gangs. And the reason is they care far more about any threat to the status quo than they do the living conditions of working class communities.
Given the recent revelations about the police gang matrix I think it's fair to say they can identify at least some gang members as they've thousands of people on their radar.
 
There will be some decent intelligence in that matrix but I personally would err on the side of caution in terms of some of the associations and how they are characterised. There has been criticism before now about the description 'gang' being overused in describing what are basically aqcuaintances and not formal/organisaed involvements.
 
The IWCA had it right last time (and you’re basically predicting the same)

Dealing with the renegades « IWCA national website
People embracing a 'non-work ethic' is nothing new, mind. Plenty of that in the 1980s. Maybe I'm a bad person, but I'm more sympathetic to it than that article, which appears to be condemning people for not settling for whichever crap job they might be able to get.

This bit in particular seems to miss a few points for me:

a perverse pride in subverting a core socialist tenet: ‘you only take out exactly what you’ve put in’

Again, maybe I'm a bad person, but there's nothing perverse in my book about feeling good about taking a bit more than the state tells you you're entitled to when you think the state has basically fucked you over.

I don't pretend to know much about the gang culture being referred to, so maybe the article's characterisation of it is accurate, but it reads a bit like a caricature to me.
 
I’m not sure how being stabbed by a gang member is different to being stabbed by a non gang member though. They are both coming from the same social malaise.
 
The contention is racial profiling. So anyone who is black gets stopped and searched by virtue of being black.
But like I suggested earlier- they’re able to identify political activists and insert officers into their lives, yet don’t have the resources or political will to identify and crush the gangs. And the reason is they care far more about any threat to the status quo than they do the living conditions of working class communities.
The police infiltration of activist groups is profoundly anti-democratic and something no police should be engaging in at all. Not sure it is really relevant here for that reason - the political will behind covert operations is a sinister political will, one we should oppose.
 
The police infiltration of activist groups is profoundly anti-democratic and something no police should be engaging in at all. Not sure it is really relevant here for that reason - the political will behind covert operations is a sinister political will, one we should oppose.

My point was the resources they’re willing to employ against progressive groups vs the resources that are available keeping working class communities free of and safe from harm.
 
My point was the resources they’re willing to employ towards progressive groups vs the resources that are available keeping working class communities free and safe from harm.
There are plenty of resources. Have you seen Britain's armed forces? The nuclear bomb? The wars Britain has engaged in over the last couple of decades? So with political will, resources can be found to do all kinds of things. That's a given, surely. But I'm not clear what you're calling for here. A series of covert operations to bring down the gangs? That sounds like something that would backfire spectacularly.
 
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