Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[Johnny Canuck3]

Here's what somebody has to say about the effect of the sanctions against Cuba:

These measures of arbitrary constraint are tantamount to a U.S. undeclared act of war against Cuba; their devastating economic and social effects deny the people to exercise their basic human rights, and are unbearable for them. They directly subject the people to the maximum of suffering and infringe upon the physical and moral integrity of the whole population, and in the first place of the children, of the elderly and of women. In this respect, they can be seen as a crime against humanity .

http://www.alternatives.ca/eng/our-...article/the-effects-of-the-us-embargo?lang=fr

Can't get much clearer than that. A crime against humanity.

Is this what you want for Israel?

 

[frogwoman]

Sounds to me that those sanctions didn't have the teeth that the Iraqi sanctions had. Surely we are applying the sanctions in order to have them work, aren't we?

The South African sanctions crushed the regime and didn't result in the deaths of innocent people.

 

[8ball]

No.

But you have.

In 2 posts!

Cock.

You dopey cunt. Can't you just make your own little private fuckwit thread so that people can discuss what is a pretty serious issue without your sad trolling?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

i do actually yes.

Let's be careful here!

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Have you got anything to add other than "what if" scenarios, Johnny?

You know full well that the US is the key to ending this conflict and that it can be done without military action, in fact most conflicts can be solved without military action.

 

[frogwoman]

Here's what somebody has to say about the effect of the sanctions against Cuba:




http://www.alternatives.ca/eng/our-...article/the-effects-of-the-us-embargo?lang=fr

Can't get much clearer than that. A crime against humanity.

Is this what you want for Israel?

They've destroyed the cuban economy and completely fucked up a lot of things, but the fact remains that most cubans have a relatively good standard of living, good health system, low infant mortality rate, etc, more so than a fuck of a lot of people in the west in fact.

utterly wrong and politically motivated what the US has done certainly is, but calling it a "crime against humanity" in view of that phrases connotations is going a bit fucking far IMO. and I'm not defending the sanctions regime there either.

 

[Spymaster]

Can't you just make your own little private fuckwit thread ...

No need.

There's a ready-made one right here; you're on it!

....discuss what is a pretty serious issue without your sad trolling?

"If you say anything that I don't agree with, you're a troll".

Cunt.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

They've destroyed the cuban economy and completely fucked up a lot of things, but the fact remains that most cubans have a relatively good standard of living, good health system, low infant mortality rate, etc, more so than a fuck of a lot of people in the west in fact.

utterly wrong and politically motivated what the US has done certainly is, but calling it a "crime against humanity" in view of that phrases connotations is going a bit fucking far IMO. and .

So you want a sanctions regime that doesn't actually inconvenience the subject people, but that still is successful, somehow?

Kinder, gentler sanctions?

 

[DotCommunist]

The fact that UNICEF record 0% child malnutrition and 90 odd % percent literacy despite the hostility of the biggest superpower sort of mugs your 'point' off a bit JC3

 

[8ball]

No need.

There's a ready-made one right here, you're on it!

<yawns>

Yeah, cesare, you have a point.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

They've destroyed the cuban economy and completely fucked up a lot of things, but the fact remains that most cubans have a relatively good standard of living, good health system, low infant mortality rate, etc, more so than a fuck of a lot of people in the west in fact.

.

Uh, you don't think the bolded parts contradict one another?

 

[Belushi]

What was your view on sanctions during the apartheid era Johnny?

 

[frogwoman]

RE Saddam:

It's well known that Saddam used some of the things the west did as propaganda to gain support among the Arab world and to give himself a popular international image among certain sections of the muslim community despite the fact that he remianed a ruthlessly secular leader. That is partly why, apart from it being utterly wrong, I do not advocate military action against israel, As it would have the same result. None of this is controversial stuff, even for people like myself who marched against the iraq war.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The fact that UNICEF record 0% child malnutrition and 90 odd % percent literacy despite the hostility of the biggest superpower sort of mugs your 'point' off a bit JC3

Where? In Saddam's Iraq under UN sanctions?

 

[DotCommunist]

Depends if you think an economy is about serving a populace or generating money for an elite. Guess which route cubans prefer?

 

[MikeMcc]

http://www.iraqwar.org/childunicef.htm


These were the results of UN sanctions. Frogwoman, is that what you're advocating be done to Israel?

Why not, it might remind them what they are already doing to the Palestinian peoplle in Gaza...

 

[cesare]

Have you got anything to add other than "what if" scenarios, Johnny?

You know full well that the US is the key to ending this conflict and that it can be done without military action, in fact most conflicts can be solved without military action.

I fucking rue the day when the USSR fell leaving the US in sole charge. At the time, I thought it was a good thing. Now I look at what the US have done with that power unopposed and it makes me puke.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's well known that Saddam used some of the things the west did as propaganda to gain support among the Arab world .

The palestinians, of course, would do no such thing.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I fucking rue the day when the USSR fell leaving the US in sole charge..

You're giving away your age, because you obviously don't remember the state of the world before the fall of the USSR.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Why not, it might remind them what they are already doing to the Palestinian peoplle in Gaza...

Well, at least you're honest.

So: starve them, and if that doesn't work..............shoot them?

 

[Spymaster]

Yeah, cesare, you have a point.

Only a shite one. She's been clinging to the coat-tails of other peoples arguments throughout the thread.

You've been far worse though.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Anyway, I'm outta here for a while. Been a slice.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I fucking rue the day when the USSR fell leaving the US in sole charge. At the time, I thought it was a good thing. Now I look at what the US have done with that power unopposed and it makes me puke.

Yeah it's grim but I don't think it's any different now to what they did then. The USSR was a convenient pretext for all sorts of crimes, then it was drug traffickers and now it's terrorists. I think it's just easier to see through the bullshit now they don't have a huge superpower to blame for all their actions.

 

[frogwoman]

They do. So fucking what? It doesn't mean that Israel should be doing what it is, the same as Saddam telling some porkies justifies the invasion of iraq on completely false pretexts a few years later.

 

[Flavour]

Israel should be punished - ban on Israeli imports in the EU sounds like a good idea.

 

[frogwoman]

What was your view on sanctions during the apartheid era Johnny?

Oh those poor put upon upper middle class white south africans, living in their massive houses and swimming pools etc ...

 

[frogwoman]

Well, at least you're honest.

So: starve them, and if that doesn't work..............shoot them?

"We need a solution - a final solution"

admit it, this is what you want to see someone say.

 

[dylans]

I'm just wondering if there are any real solutions besides a lot of talk and placard waving.

It concerns me that every reply I make to your posts begins with the following

That's bollocks.

Frogwoman just gave you a step by step list of demands. So did Doctor Carrot and many others.

I have posted the position of the Israeli peace movement and a link to their webiste.

Have you even bothered to read it?

I bet you haven't . Why don't you go away and read their points and consider them instead of continually posting this inane drivel. You want a solution? Here, fucking read it, think about it and come back with real questions and points worthy of someone over 12 years old.

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/index_en.html

 

[cesare]

You're giving away your age, because you obviously don't remember the state of the world before the fall of the USSR.

I was born in 1961. I clearly remember the state of the world before the fall of the USSR.


(Hey, you imagined up that I have a child. You've imagined up that I'm a young person. What next with your imaginings?)

 

[cesare]

Only a shite one. She's been clinging to the coat-tails of other peoples arguments throughout the thread.

You've been far worse though.

You love it, you slag.