Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[frogwoman]

that is bollocks though isn't it? You genuinely hoped for a 'crush israel' response so you could wank on one. I fully expect you to spend a few pages denying this. As usual.

yep

 

[Doctor Carrot]

In any event, let's focus. This thread is about Israel and Palestine.

So, how about it?

*Yawn*

If you're going to willfully ignore everything i've said about solutions then there's no point debating with you.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

ok here's what i want:

an immediate ban on arms exports to israel.
an immediate ban on military aid to israel.
international arrest warrants to be issues to israeli military and political leaders, and a tribunal to be set up for this.
economic sanctions. (im aware of the problems surrounding these, but it's preferable imo to either of the alternatives)
a ban on israeli goods being sold inside the EU

and all of this until Israel withdraws back to its 1967 borders.


There you go, no guns or wanking over IDF vs NATO gun battles.

What if Israel broke the ban by sneaking weapons in on freighters?

Should an armed blockade be put in place?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

*Yawn*

If you're going to willfully ignore everything i've said about solutions then there's no point debating with you.

What you did, was ask some question about the US.

I'm beginning to think that you are all talk.

 

[8ball]

I'm beginning to think that you are all talk.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

What if Israel broke the ban by sneaking weapons in on freighters?

Should an armed blockade be put in place?

Transparent loaded question is hugely transparent

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

economic sanctions. (im aware of the problems surrounding these, but it's preferable imo to either of the alternatives)
a ban on israeli goods being sold inside the EU

How far would you starve the Israelis in an effort to make them comply with your demands?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

What you did, was ask some question about the US.

I'm beginning to think that you are all talk.

Errr...no, be a good lad and pop back a couple of pages where I talked about Taba and then get back to me.

 

[frogwoman]

What if Israel broke the ban by sneaking weapons in on freighters?

Should an armed blockade be put in place?

What if they did the same thing they constantly accuse the palestinians of you mean?

erm, no. the makers of the weapons should be prosecuted though.

however, as it's not likely to happen any time soon im not sure why you're asking the question other than to fulfil some wank fantasy.

 

[Spymaster]

Dwyer's proof of the existence of God had ten times more logic going on than this sad piece of tag team attention seeking.

Fuck off you dullard.

Either take him on, do-one, or sit and watch.

Don't just snipe from the sidelines.

Or are you Blagsta in disguise?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Transparent loaded question is hugely transparent

So what? Armed blockades are ok sometimes, depending? Same with starving a people into submission?

 

[frogwoman]

How far would you starve the Israelis in an effort to make them comply with your demands?

Don't be a twat johnny. south africans didnt exactly starve did they?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

What if they did the same thing they constantly accuse the palestinians of you mean?

erm, no. the makers of the weapons should be prosecuted though. .

So: weapons are being snuck in in contravention to a UN ban, but no blockade to give some actual effect to the ban?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Don't be a twat johnny. south africans didnt exactly starve did they?

From what I can gather, the sanctions against Iraq and Saddam resulted in the death of One Million Iraqi Children

 

[frogwoman]

it'd be up to individual governments to police inside their own borders.

ffs. north korea (your favourite example) doesn't have an armed blockade around it, does it.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

So what? Armed blockades are ok sometimes, depending? Same with starving a people into submission?

You know I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt but Dotty and Froggy are correct aren't they?

You're sitting there right now just stroking it, waiting for someone to say "Yes, crush Israel with the military might of the West" so you can have a furious wank whilst typing "Anti Semitic Hypocrite" with one hand, at which point you'll push the "Submit Reply" button and jizz all over your already badly stained keyboard.

 

[cesare]

Yes they would.

No, they wouldn't.

 

[frogwoman]

From what I can gather, the sanctions against Iraq and Saddam resulted in the death of One Million Iraqi Children

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Don't be a twat johnny. south africans didnt exactly starve did they?

The policy of sanctions has also been used to pursue political goals — for example, the removal of the Iraqi regime — beyond the overt scope of Resolution 687, which contained no prescriptions regarding Iraq’s form of government or the conduct of domestic policy. The Iraqi population’s economic and social rights have been seriously infringed by the impact of a prolonged embargo. In an authoritarian state which continued to hold most of the levers of control, much of the burden caused by the embargo fell on the civilian population.

The immediate consequence of eight years of sanctions has been a dramatic fall in living standards, the collapse of the infrastructure, and a serious decline in the availability of public services. The longer-term damage to the fabric of society has yet to be assessed but economic disruption has already led to heightened levels of crime, corruption and violence. Competition for increasingly scarce resources has allowed the Iraqi state to use clan and sectarian rivalries to maintain its control, further fragmenting Iraqi society.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/105/effects-of-sanctions

 

[8ball]

Fuck off you dullard.

Either take him on or do-one. Don't just snipe from the sidelines.

Or are you Blagsta in disguise?

Fuck's sake- haven't you shown yourself up as a moronic attention-seeking cunt for enough pages already?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Back in 1996, when the number of Iraqi children killed off by sanctions stood at around half a million, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright made her infamous declaration to Lesley Stahl on CBS that "we think the price is worth it". Given such pride in mass murder at the top, it comes as little surprise to learn that the State Department views the truth about the vicious sanctions policy with the same insouciance as their boss regards the lives of Iraqi children, now dying at the rate of four thousand a month.

http://www.counterpunch.org/tinycoffins.html

 

[frogwoman]

http://www.counterpunch.org/tinycoffins.html

i think that the sanctions contibuted to a lot of deaths, but i also think saddam etc used them as a propaganda weapon in the middle east (and a very effective one too).

got anything to say to my point about south africa? or cuba, for that matter - with the lowest rate of child malnutrition iirc in the world, despite the fact it's been under a us blockade for half a century.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

One can't know the exact numbers. 500,000 was the widely reported figure even 2 years ago. Dennis Halliday, the just resigned United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator said "we are losing 6,000 to 7,000 children a month, dying every month, as a consequence of the sanctions (New York Times 1/3/99). The Washington Post according to a recent Pat Buchanan column reports a minimum of 250,000. John McLaughlin on NBC news reported up to 700,000, based on the earlier number + current monthly totals. And that was before the last American bombing which included the refinery in the South with provided gasoline and lubricants for local industry which means fewer jobs. One shouldn't forget in this context Washington's bombing of the main antibiotics factory in the famine raged Sudan. We have no numbers on the new numbers of children dying there.

http://www.iraqwar.org/childunicef.htm


These were the results of UN sanctions. Frogwoman, is that what you're advocating be done to Israel?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

i think that the sanctions contibuted to a lot of deaths, but i also think saddam etc used them as a propaganda weapon in the middle east (and a very effective one too).

You mean that the subject of the sanctions.............lied............. in order to gain propaganda points?

Holy shit!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

got anything to say to my point about south africa? or cuba, for that matter - with the lowest rate of child malnutrition iirc in the world, despite the fact it's been under a us blockade for half a century.

Sounds to me that those sanctions didn't have the teeth that the Iraqi sanctions had. Surely we are applying the sanctions in order to have them work, aren't we?

 

[Spymaster]

Fuck's sake- haven't you shown yourself up as a moronic attention-seeking cunt for enough pages already?

No.

But you have.

In 2 posts!

Cock.

 

[DotCommunist]

I'm sure Pat Buchanan rates as a reliable source in some alternate universe. Advisor to Reagan eh? What a guy.

 

[Belushi]

http://www.iraqwar.org/childunicef.htm


These were the results of UN sanctions. Frogwoman, is that what you're advocating be done to Israel?

I'm pretty sure she's advocating the kind of sanctions regime regime imposed on South Africa and Rhodesia Johnny.

The other apartheid states.

 

[cesare]

Fuck's sake- haven't you shown yourself up as a moronic attention-seeking cunt for enough pages already?

You're not grasping that pride in generating pages thang.

 

[frogwoman]

You mean that the subject of the sanctions.............lied............. in order to gain propaganda points?

Holy shit!

i do actually yes. And did you read the paragraph you posted?