Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[Johnny Canuck3]

JC this argument has some merit if the IDF genuinely believed that the ships were transporting illegal goods and that there was an immediate threat, but it is immediately defeated by the fact that the IDF raided it in international waters and were armed with paintball guns, stun grenades and CS gas.

Of course, when they talk about "illegal goods" they mean cement, and timber, and building materials generally.

I haven't seen into the hold of that ship. Have you?

 

[not-bono-ever]

You approach a police blockade, and as you approach, the police warn you via bullhorn to stop or they will shoot.

You hear them, but continue toward them. What conclusions can be drawn from your actions in continuing in the face of the warning?

They were in international waters.

 

[Blagsta]

I've just started researching it. Work and all before now.

When I first saw it on CNN this morning, I thought, 'terrible - what's going on?' I knew nothing at that point about the many warnings, the alternative landing sites etc.

I wasn't there, so I don't know what really went on. But I'll keep reading things, and continue to form an opinion as I go. Hopefully you'll do the same.



One thing, though. We've seen demonstrated that there are people who will attach bombs to themselves in furtherance of a cause. They become martyrs. Is is so difficult a stretch to think that individuals on that ship were prepared to become martyrs in furtherance of a cause, and thus were fully prepared to sail into the guns, in spite of repeated warnings?

 

[Blagsta]

I haven't seen into the hold of that ship. Have you?

 

[agricola]

I haven't seen into the hold of that ship. Have you?

No. Do you think they would have boarded a ship transporting weapons, and yet be armed with paintball guns?

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

I've just started researching it. Work and all before now.

When I first saw it on CNN this morning, I thought, 'terrible - what's going on?' I knew nothing at that point about the many warnings, the alternative landing sites etc.

I wasn't there, so I don't know what really went on. But I'll keep reading things, and continue to form an opinion as I go. Hopefully you'll do the same.



One thing, though. We've seen demonstrated that there are people who will attach bombs to themselves in furtherance of a cause. They become martyrs. Is is so difficult a stretch to think that individuals on that ship were prepared to become martyrs in furtherance of a cause, and thus were fully prepared to sail into the guns, in spite of repeated warnings?

no. i think that's the wrong start point. a ship loaded with humanitarian aid was assaulted by some israeli paratroopers who used their combat experience to shoot a load of people dead. if you were going to suicide bomb israel, you probably wouldn't choose a well-publicised well-known aid mission as the best way to get your bombs in.

Next!!!!

 

[stethoscope]

Oh ffs, JC!

 

[Bernie Gunther]

JC arguing dishonestly in support of zionist killers. Wow, what a surprise!

 

[IC3D]

I think the 600 people on the boat were a human shield to stop the IDF storming it, could be wrong!

 

[editor]

You approach a police blockade, and as you approach, the police warn you via bullhorn to stop or they will shoot.

You hear them, but continue toward them. What conclusions can be drawn from your actions in continuing in the face of the warning?

Except they were 40 miles out to sea in international waters and were illegally attacked from above.

Reports say troops boarded the ship about 40 miles (64 km) out to sea in international waters.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10199480.stm

 

[gavman]

I'm sorry Wasn't Netanyahuh elected? As was Ariel Sharon Before him.? If the citizens of Israel don't wish to be condemned alongside their fascist government, then let them demonstrate and demand an end to the siege of Gaza and an end to settlements.

^this
same as a dutch boer living in apartheid sa bore some of the blame, so does a european or american israeli

 

[the button]

Sass gets banned; JC3 logs on. It's like gobshite tagteam.

 

[little_legs]

editor, have you heard from/about your friend?

 

[not-bono-ever]

apparently the IDF throught there was a chance that the ships did indeed contain unknown weapons that could imperil Israel, so they took action to sort it out anyway.

Im sure that they may persist in this viewpoint until it is ( likely ) discovered that there were no weapons on board, then casually cease with this lie.


Hmmm havent we heard this type of justification for slaughter somewhere before ?

 

[weltweit]

oh do fuck off you twat.

Eh.. what I do ??

I don't know enough about the substantive issues to comment on them but I noticed the attempted return of a banned poster and the eagle eyed picking off of them by a mod in the midst of the thread.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

apparently the IDF throught there was a chance that the ships didn indeed contain weapons that could imperil Israel, so they took action to sort it out anyway.

Im sure that they may persist in this viewpoint until it is ( likely ) discovered that there were no weapons on board, then causllay cease with this line.


Hmmm havent we heard this type of justification for slaughter somewhere before ?

To paraphrase the immortal words of Mandy Rice Davies:

'Well they would say that wouldn't they'

 

[bingiman]

When I first saw it on CNN this morning, I thought, 'terrible - what's going on?' I knew nothing at that point about the many warnings, the alternative landing sites etc.

It's called propaganda

I wasn't there, so I don't know what really went on.

Clearly

But I'll keep reading things, and continue to form an opinion as I go. Hopefully you'll do the same.

One thing, though. We've seen demonstrated that there are people who will attach bombs to themselves in furtherance of a cause. They become martyrs. Is is so difficult a stretch to think that individuals on that ship were prepared to become martyrs in furtherance of a cause, and thus were fully prep

How tenuous...how weak.

It's clear what happened. A bunch of peace campaigners were killed.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

if you were going to suicide bomb israel, you probably wouldn't choose a well-publicised well-known aid mission as the best way to get your bombs in.

Next!!!!

One thing this has done, is generate a huge amount of publicity. Way more than another bomb belt in an Israeli restaurant would get.


If you're prepared to spend lives in the furtherance of a cause, these lives got a real bang for the buck.

 

[OneStrike]

Was the convoy going to go all the way or were they expecting to be stopped at the blockade border and have a world wide recorded standoff to highlight the cause. Forgive me my conjecture please, but that would have done some good but the IDF stepped in to stop that embarassment occuring and it turned into a clusterfuck (just giving a theory). I hope, but doubt, whoever ordered the attack on a ship with 500 ish anti policy demonstrators is now in a heap of shit.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Seems pretty clear to me. Some laughably incompetent Israeli commandos illegally boarded a Turkish flagged aid ship to prevent badly needed building, basic hygiene and medical supplies reaching some poor fucks the Israelis have been tormenting. They got their arses kicked by a bunch of guys armed with mop handles, panicked and started firing into the crowd.

They should stand trial in Turkey for their crimes.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's clear what happened. A bunch of peace campaigners were killed.

Yes. You've got that right. The hard part is piecing together the back-story.

That will require some thought, and not simply the digestion of a thirty second sound bite, followed by the expected reaction.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Seems pretty clear to me. Some laughably incompetent Israeli commandos illegally boarded a Turkish flagged aid ship to prevent badly needed building, basic hygiene and medical supplies reaching some poor fucks the Israelis have been tormenting. They got their arses kicked by a bunch of guys armed with mop handles, panicked and started firing into the crowd.

They should stand trial in Turkey for their crimes.

yeh, but to be fair, have you ever been attacked with a mop handle whilst you're been handling a glok-automatic? he probably shot the gut by mistake.....

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Sass gets banned; JC3 logs on. It's like gobshite tagteam.

Did Sas get banned for questioning the standard line? I guess I'd better tread lightly.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Seems pretty clear to me. Some laughably incompetent Israeli commandos illegally boarded a Turkish flagged aid ship to prevent badly needed building, basic hygiene and medical supplies reaching some poor fucks the Israelis have been tormenting. They got their arses kicked by a bunch of guys armed with mop handles, panicked and started firing into the crowd.

They should stand trial in Turkey for their crimes.

Forvgie me, Im not a military fetishist/ armchair general but Israeli commandos usually know what they are doing - I genuinely cant see that they panicked and lost it

 

[Blagsta]

Did Sas get banned for questioning the standard line? I guess I'd better tread lightly.

Disingenuous.

 

[Fedayn]

Did Sas get banned for questioning the standard line? I guess I'd better tread lightly.

perhaps read what he said, then you might know what he did..... There's a thought eh?

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

One thing this has done, is generate a huge amount of publicity. Way more than another bomb belt in an Israeli restaurant would get.


If you're prepared to spend lives in the furtherance of a cause, these lives got a real bang for the buck.

that's certainly one way of looking at the whole damned affair tbf.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

One thing this has done, is generate a huge amount of publicity. Way more than another bomb belt in an Israeli restaurant would get.


If you're prepared to spend lives in the furtherance of a cause, these lives got a real bang for the buck.

Yes it was in order to further a cause. It wasn't people showing solidarity with people brutalised by the Israeli state. All those wheelchairs and that cement they were carrying was just a ruse.

 

[Fedayn]

That will require some thought, and not simply the digestion of a thirty second sound bite, followed by the expected reaction.

Perhaps inform your aged tag-team partner Sassaferrato of that then....

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

No. Do you think they would have boarded a ship transporting weapons, and yet be armed with paintball guns?

I haven't checked: were the fatalities made that way with paintball guns?