All violence has to cease, israel has shown during the ceasefire they are willing to stop, hamas are clearly not willing so the vicious cycle endures, and the UN... all theyll do is issue another, to be ignored, mandate, the israeli bombing is quite pointless absolutely the perfect recruitment drive for hamas and their ilk but israel will always retaliate against attacks.
Israel in coordinated missile attacks on Gaza
- Thread starter Fez909
- Start date
All violence has to cease, israel has shown during the ceasefire they are willing to stop, hamas are clearly not willing so the vicious cycle endures, and the UN... all theyll do is issue another, to be ignored, mandate, the israeli bombing is quite pointless absolutely the perfect recruitment drive for hamas and their ilk but israel will always retaliate against attacks.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
please read up on the history of the region and recent indcidents before commenting further.
really you are doing both this thread and yourself a disservice by not being fully a breast of the issues.
You surely cant start a peace process with extremists, it must move from the centre outward as i believe happened in northern ireland, the PA and Fatah could be used as a conduit initially, though its doubtful this would ever be acceptable to Hamas. Hamas were never going to be a force for peace.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
But the reality is that Sinn Fein politicians were elected (as are Hamas officials) and the peace process only moved forward when Sinn Fein were involved in negotiations.
You can't defuse the situation and disarm the paramilitary wings of these political organisations by refusing the acknowledge the legitimacy of the election of elected representatives. You can't have a pick and mix 'democracy' where you only recognise and deal with politicians and organisations of your choosing, and thereby negating the whole democratic process.
I agree but you surely must "start" at a more conciliatory level in order to get things moving or you will get nowhere.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
instead of crying crocodile's tears about what's happening in sderot and ashkelon and not even doing anything to protect the actual civilians there other than bombing the shit out of innocent palestinians, and whining about what hamas do or don't say in their charter, a more conciliatory level would surely be lifting the siege on gaza, allowing humanitarian aid through, stop firing on peaceful demonstrators, get rid of the settlements, get rid of the discriminatory laws against palestinians, tearing down the wall ... 
instead of crying crocodile's tears about what's happening in sderot and ashkelon and not even doing anything to protect the actual civilians there other than bombing the shit out of innocent palestinians, and whining about what hamas do or don't say in their charter, a more conciliatory level would surely be lifting the siege on gaza, allowing humanitarian aid through, stop firing on peaceful demonstrators, get rid of the settlements, get rid of the discriminatory laws against palestinians, tearing down the wall ...
I wish you were "in charge" frogesse, you have it all sewn up
Really? How? Actually, I'd say it's Hamas that could stop them far more easily.
It is indeed & always has been.yep @vp
israel must be becoming more of a liability to the US government by the day tho, surely?
hopefully Obama will step in and stop the madness but I doubt it....he's already been paid off by the "right" people
How eloquent, do you suffer from tourettes?
Yeah tbh I don’t know why anyone is expecting anything of the sort from Obama, I mean not like he could do anything even if he wanted to. The Jewish lobby has too much influence in the US to let anything get in the way of the Israeli government or indeed allow support from the US to dwindle.
indeed
hipipol
Peckham Wry
Oh Garf
You're real reason for being pissed off with him is cos he has moved South of the River to Gods own country - ie the Sunny Uplands of the South London Scarp!!!
I believe he has swapped hackney for Sydenham
Sorry for the derail but I could not resist - the next post is on topic
has it occured to you that people might know each other for longer than the period you have daned to prance about these here boards?
You're real reason for being pissed off with him is cos he has moved South of the River to Gods own country - ie the Sunny Uplands of the South London Scarp!!!
I believe he has swapped hackney for Sydenham
Sorry for the derail but I could not resist - the next post is on topic
It'll be real interesting to see how he deals with it. I have more hope from him than the Bush gang that did nothing. This should be Hillary's first assignment, get Israel to let the Pals. have a real country. But the Gaza situation now pretty much prevents any negotiations. But it'll settle down eventually & then Obama better give Hillary the orders. But, Obama's first priority will be the econ disaster left to him.
hipipol
Peckham Wry
There are number of assumptions here, but first, you may not be able to speak for the Isaeli Govt at the moment but you'd love to wouldn't you? You are already totally on message, you sound very reasonable and plausable, you already have the world weary tone that the Israeli Govts spokespeeeps have, "we didn't want to do this, we were forced into it, etc, etc"
Oh yes a "ceasefire for six months" - during which time Gaza is under a blockade, two hours of power a day, if you're lucky, no work so virtually everyone lives on UN humanitarian aid, well provided the Israelis let the food thru, no medicine or supplies for the hospitals so you have people dying of diseases, injuries etc that are fairly easily treatable - the Israelis just a few miles away get top notch care.... and how many Israelis died in this hail of rocket fire? 1
The "Predictable Israeli response".....well know actually - Olmert and barak had their arses spanked by Hizbolla when they decided to turn their slaughter machine on the Lebanon (Now a normal Israeli response - over the top by most normal behaviour standards, but there you go, who can stop them? - would not result in over 300 dead in two days and even that number is so low only because the Palestinians do not have the wherewithal to dig the dead out from under the rubble) so they need to make up some lost ground by kicking the shit out a MUCH weaker "enemy". The Hamas guy interviewed on the BBC yesterday looked shocked - I mean they did expect a slap, but not this
"if you attack and try to kill me with such venom, 80 attempts in one day, dont be suprised when that is returned, and if you do that you have no moral basis to argue how severe that retaliation should be" That statement is totally indefensible, 1 Israeli dead, 300 Arad dead - leaves no moral basis eh? 80 "ATTEMPTS" with unsteerable rockets as opposed to lazer guided smart bombs dropped from one of the most advanced aircraft in the world we can see that you grasp of language is sub year 5 and as for the maths, 1 to 300/
"No moral basis?"
This one is SOOO blinkered I just had to laugh - I think you actually believe it!!
Hamas are a nationalist fascist organization which has only ever caused problems in the region, no good will come from there continued existence imo
Its worth pointing out they were chosen by the elctorate, in elections compelled on the Palestinians by Israel and the Yanks. Israeli has spent YEARS reducing Fatah to a state so feeble it was hardly surprise when Hamas won - not part of the plan - immediately you get bluster and threats from Israel, even the half wit Bush from the madland of Washington telling the Palestinians the got the vote wrong - none of the cash promised for after the election arrived, cheap little excuses were found to justify that bullying and petulant decision. Now a quick glance at the PMs of Israel since the formation of the country shows a worrying line of ex Terrorists or Special Forces guys win - do react with horror when you see that? Isael has become what many of the founders feared, a totally militarised and de-sensitised state - well de-sensitised to Arab suffering, hyper sensitised to Jewish pain.
The Israel govt has over recent years been plagued by coruption and even a groper - did the rape cases against him get proved?
The longer Israel goes on killing innocents with some of the worlds most advanced weaponry, with all the graft, macho posturing and all of the stupidity that goes with that, the more its claim to be "European" is seen as a sham - its Syria but witha blue star on the flag.
hipipol
Peckham Wry
I doubt anything will change.
Democracy is a sham. There will be some respite from the aggression of the neo-cons, for sure. But change?
hipipol
Peckham Wry
This alarming
http://www.thejc.com/articles/analysis-where-responsibility-really-lies
This is the current issue I think
There is a spokesman from the Israeli Embassy on BBC News 24 at the moment saying that Israelis fell "deep nsympathy for the Palestinian civilians in Gaza"
Questioned on that he said, "Well its because we face the same troubles too, because of these rocket attacks,,,,,,,,,,"
It really is David and Gloiath all over again, noly this time its Goliath who is jewish.
The Israeli Govt seems divorced from reality and doesn't realise the impact bombing a University, blowing all the windows out in a hospital and reducing half of a Mosque to rubble does not look good on the TV - neither does comparing what some Israeli suffer to whats happened in Gaza over the last 10 years......
The mind really does boggle
http://www.thejc.com/articles/analysis-where-responsibility-really-lies
This is the current issue I think
There is a spokesman from the Israeli Embassy on BBC News 24 at the moment saying that Israelis fell "deep nsympathy for the Palestinian civilians in Gaza"
Questioned on that he said, "Well its because we face the same troubles too, because of these rocket attacks,,,,,,,,,,"
It really is David and Gloiath all over again, noly this time its Goliath who is jewish.
The Israeli Govt seems divorced from reality and doesn't realise the impact bombing a University, blowing all the windows out in a hospital and reducing half of a Mosque to rubble does not look good on the TV - neither does comparing what some Israeli suffer to whats happened in Gaza over the last 10 years......
The mind really does boggle
Proving, yet again, that anyone with the slightest whiff of power from any of the major faiths never truly understand the messages in their holy books and just use religion to gain support in politics.
Actually all sides in this are following their faith & that's a large part of the problem. Our god is the true god, god gave us this land, the other guys are going to hell, we have to stand by this or that side because they are on our god's team like us or the book of blah blah says blah blah........
The holy books talk peace & love but mainly superiority & domination.....just pours gas on a fire.
Fuchs66
Ring a ding
Not taking any sides here but counter battery measures wouldn't work, as the launch sites are not fixed and basically rely on a shoot and scoot tactic. By the time Israeli shells start falling all they're destroying is some poor bastards olive grove.
Dimitris
Well-Known Member
imo Hamas did a mistake to use force against Fatah some months ago and exclude them from the Gaza strip. Now that Israel strikes again (as it has happened during the last 60 years) they are alone, and clearly cannot defend against IDF.
Israel is more than happy to fight against Hamas and Fatah one by one rather than a combined force of them, as it used to be years ago.
Internal conflicts when you have such a big enemy next to you are not really helpfull ...
The israeli state of course is not "defending" from Hamas attack.... This is a full scale attack against civilians, against the palestinian people.. It is not the first time that this has happened though, Hamas should have expected this to happen sooner or later anyway.
If Israel wanted to defend they have enough Patriot missiles to defend the lame 80s technology rockets that Hamas (or maybe Fatah) fires.
I did not expect anything better from the other arab governments, they all get economic aid from US and therefore are never going to take a clear position in this. Turkey is quick enough to condemn the Israeli attacks, but they "forget" that they are doing the same against the kurds... Turkish elections are approaching Erdogan wants to be friendly with his public... He was trying to negotiate in the area anyway, this attack clearly destroyes his work in the area..
Hamas are no "angels" really... Do not forget that they are controlled a lot by Iran, Iran could be using them for their own benefit. Obama has stated that he wants to approach Iran, thereofore Israel would like to "remind" Obama that Hamas are "terrorists", an are controlled by Iran, so any approach would be an approach with a country that "supports terrorism".
The situation is not exactly "black and white" and it is really confused, the only real victims are the people of palestine.
Israel is more than happy to fight against Hamas and Fatah one by one rather than a combined force of them, as it used to be years ago.
Internal conflicts when you have such a big enemy next to you are not really helpfull ...
The israeli state of course is not "defending" from Hamas attack.... This is a full scale attack against civilians, against the palestinian people.. It is not the first time that this has happened though, Hamas should have expected this to happen sooner or later anyway.
If Israel wanted to defend they have enough Patriot missiles to defend the lame 80s technology rockets that Hamas (or maybe Fatah) fires.
I did not expect anything better from the other arab governments, they all get economic aid from US and therefore are never going to take a clear position in this. Turkey is quick enough to condemn the Israeli attacks, but they "forget" that they are doing the same against the kurds... Turkish elections are approaching Erdogan wants to be friendly with his public... He was trying to negotiate in the area anyway, this attack clearly destroyes his work in the area..
Hamas are no "angels" really... Do not forget that they are controlled a lot by Iran, Iran could be using them for their own benefit. Obama has stated that he wants to approach Iran, thereofore Israel would like to "remind" Obama that Hamas are "terrorists", an are controlled by Iran, so any approach would be an approach with a country that "supports terrorism".
The situation is not exactly "black and white" and it is really confused, the only real victims are the people of palestine.
Fuchs66
Ring a ding
It may be old/homemade technology but Patriots wouldn't help against them, it's not what they werev designed to do.
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