Israel in coordinated missile attacks on Gaza

[warey74]

There's some dodgy shit appearing on this thread and, while I'm not going to do anything without at least issuing a warning first i.e. this, signs of people being unable to distinguish between Jews and the Israeli government, say, have been known to result in expulsion.

Clearly that won't be an issue for anyone. Will it?

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles_of_faith/2008/12/boston_jewish_l.html

Two leading Jewish organizations in Boston -- Combined Jewish Philanthropies and the Jewish Community Relations Council -- today issued a statement defending Israel's decision to launch airstrikes against Hamas in Gaza. The attacks have reportedly killed more than 200 people,

 

[FridgeMagnet]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles_of_faith/2008/12/boston_jewish_l.html

Two leading Jewish organizations in Boston -- Combined Jewish Philanthropies and the Jewish Community Relations Council -- today issued a statement defending Israel's decision to launch airstrikes against Hamas in Gaza. The attacks have reportedly killed more than 200 people,

Is that you having trouble distinguishing between Jews and the Israeli government? Perhaps you would like to go into the relevance in more detail.

 

[warey74]

Is that you having trouble distinguishing between Jews and the Israeli government? Perhaps you would like to go into the relevance in more detail.

Just posted an article, make of it what you want Fridge magnet

 

[Barking_Mad]

You know, any small, tiny chance Gordon Brown had of speaking out and influencing something more than some flawed global economic policy vanished when he first said this,

Mr Brown had previously said he was "deeply concerned", calling on Palestinian militants to halt all rocket attacks on Israel and saying Israel must "do everything in its power to avoid civilian casualties".

and then,

Mr Miliband said he and Prime Minister Gordon Brown were following developments in Gaza with "grave concern".

This Nu-Labour party has stood for everything and nothing, including the military equivalent of shooting a possible 1.5million people crammed into 139 square miles of land. THis on the basis that rockets fired by Hamas are a real threat to the desruction of Israel.

If there was some genuine threat by Hamas to destroy Isreal, this killing would have some sense, if no less barbarity. But there is no threat from a state that was formed by what the states currently supporting it would currently define as 'terrorists'. As a result this action goes beyond any liberal convention of self defence and passes into some quasi-fascist state acting under a mode of thinking that is concurrent with the actions of said, 'terrorists'.

What a sorry mess, one that kills the people who matter, those caught between the two ends of violence.

 

[EddyBlack]

Are you a white separatist Warey74?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Just posted an article, make of it what you want Fridge magnet

Okay then - I make of it that you think Jews are somehow all in it together and responsible for the actions of the Israeli government wherever they are, as well as being fifth columnists in some way.

So you're banned. Bye.

 

[durruti02]

Okay then - I make of it that you think Jews are somehow all in it together and responsible for the actions of the Israeli government wherever they are, as well as being fifth columnists in some way.

So you're banned. Bye.

that is no loss FM but i think it a shame rach was banned even though he admited he was a fascist ... he was a genuine ( though slightly barking) voice of israeli ultra nationalism and so was key to people developing arguments against this in debate on here .. for people to be able to defeat this it helps sometime to have them in front of you

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Mr Brown had previously said he was "deeply concerned", calling on Palestinian militants to halt all rocket attacks on Israel and saying Israel must "do everything in its power to avoid civilian casualties".

Fucking hell, even Sarkozy was prepared to condemn the Israeli air strikes. Brown's non-demand that Israel must "do everything in its power to avoid civilian casualties" will be easy for them to satisfy because they consistently claim that they do so anyway. Brown's statement reads like a carte blanche for Israel do to whatever the fuck it wants. Entirely consistent with the pro-Israeli bias of the UK Government.

 

[Woollyredhat]

These developments really make my stomach turn.

 

[mears]

When was the last suicide bombing in Israel that, like, actually killed anyone mears?

Palestinians suffer a bigger number of the losses, no doubt about it. Israel shoud do more to get the Palestinian economy reved up. I find their policy in this area mean spirited and dumb, so a little criticism for all.

 

[mears]

anyone who is fully aware of the facts and **SUPPORTS** Israeli actions after this is a fucking cunt. One day the Israeli political leadership and military command will meet the same fate as milosevic and radovan karadzic.

if the israeli gov't doesn't stop its suicidal and genocidal policies, eventually someone else will stop it for them if you understand what i am saying. there has already been calls for NATO troops to deploy in the west bank.

don't think that they will eventually stay at just being "calls" when Israel outlives its usefulness.

it has to stop now for the sake of the israelis as well as the palestinians.

IMO this should mean that limited sanctions should be imposed and an arms embargo. as long as things such as medical equipment and the like are not affected sanctions would be completely legitimate and i would rather see these than the alternatives both of which are too terrible to contemplate.

This is a dangerous neighborhood, where borders are sealed tight and conflicts escalate at an alarming rate. Muslims treat Muslims just as bad, if not worse, than Israelis treat Palestinians. Look at the treatement countries like Lebanon and Egypt dish out to the Palestinians.

You are going to have to put a lot of world leaders on trial for genocide under your definition I am afraid.

 

[bingiman]

Look at the treatement countries like Lebanon and Egypt dish out to the Palestinians.

I am not going to defend these governments and their treatment of Palestinians isn't pretty but I can't remember the last time they bombed Palestinian civilians from the air.

 

[ViolentPanda]

what i dont understand is WHY the US continue to support the state of israel financially and politically with the economy as it is?

the time for that support must be drawing to a close, surely?

If it were purely a question of geo-strategic value then you'd be right, but it's also a question of the Christian right and other US-based pro-Zionists "buying" influence in Congress.

 

[ViolentPanda]

but the american policies in the middle east have been a fucking disaster, both in terms of the fact that american troops are now embroiled in a bloody conflict and also because it has been partially responsible for ruining the economy.

i can't believe that the american leaders, purely in terms of self-interest, would see the continuation of neoconservative policies, including supporting every action the state of israel does, as a good thing?

The question boils down to "do the American leaders care", and the answer has to be, all questions of fairness, decency and plain humanity to one side, of course they don't. They don't care about Israelis and Palestinians dying, the same as they don't care, on any real level, about the metal coffins that get shipped back to the USA 2-3 times a week from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Why?
Because it doesn't affect those "American leaders", and therefore it's an abstract problem, a problem they'll only ever address properly (as opposed to the charades of Camp David and Oslo) when it's blown up in their own faces, and when it's their own children in the firing line.

 

[DotCommunist]

Not reading the thread, but can I confirm that warez2001 has turned out to be the 'curse them joo bastards' sort he smelled like from his first posts?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Profits have soared for gilad and haliburton though, not to mention the oil companies and the military-industrial complex. That'll make nice retirement gifts for war criminals. The human cost doesn't matter, capitalism's all about the bottom line.

Yup, and plenty of those congressmen who've backed the bills to support the state of Israel will find themselves with a nice sinecure courtesy of those oh-so-profitable concerns.

Obama will ditch all the neo-con bollox but the geo-political strategic interest of protecting the regional super power and bulwark against Arab nationalism will remain.

True, but more than a little ridiculous when you consider what US intervention in the Middle East is doing for the cause of pan-Arab unity, even if that unity is wrapped up in Islamicist clothing rather than it's original secular uniform.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Almost 300 palestinians have been killed according to al-jazeera.

I dont understand Egypt's role in this.


is it simply because they want to prevent an influx of refugees, or keep israel at bay? they seem to care more about not upsetting israel than helping the palestinians ...

Realpolitik, I suspect. Egypt is the second largest recipient of US aid after Israel, so they may be wanting to see which way the US jumps before doing anything that might queer their pitch with the Yanks.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They dont want to upset the Israeli's. I'm sure there's no coincidence that the Bitch Zipi Livni was in Egypt just a day before, probably told Hosni that she'd give him a blowjob if he let Israel attack Gaza and they dont help the Palestinians. After all the Israelis are notorious for using their women as whores to weaken the enemy (thinking of Mossad in particular).

Poor little Judaeophobe.
Do the nasty Yids scare ickle woo?

The arab govt's are all puppets to the Zionist agenda via the US proxy. They will not do anything against Israel but everything against true muslims in order to keep them away from positions of influence in this region and globally. This is what the West in particular the likes of UK/US are scared of, something like the establishment of a caliphate which would unite the muslims and pose a threat to the Zionist aim of Global domination.

You fucking pigshit ignorant loonspud fuckwit.
Get this through your skull, shithead: Zionists and Israel aren't synonymous, and even the most egregiously insane Zionists don't have plans for world domination.
Fuck off back to your copy of "The Protocols...", you dickless turd-sucker.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They will stamp their jackboots on millions of people and then cry anti semitism, with their wormtongue israeli friends of labour, and israeli friends of conservative sitting in parliment.

That's "Labour Friends of Israel", dipshit.

Even South African dissidents have said the jewish state is more oppressive and racist than anything south africa did.

It's the state of Israel, cretin. It's not a "Jewish state", it's a state with Jews in it, whatever ben-Gurion might have fantasised differently.

 

[frogwoman]

Not reading the thread, but can I confirm that warez2001 has turned out to be the 'curse them joo bastards' sort he smelled like from his first posts?

yup

 

[ViolentPanda]

Frogwomen. When the vast majority of Jews in the diaspora say that the creation of "the Jewish state" was Gods fufilment of its promise to Jews. Then Jewish people will be judged by what "the jewish state" does.

And so lets not mince words. it is a "Jewish state" for jewish people.

Actually, cretin, the vast majority of Jews in the Diaspora say nothing of the kind, because a majority of us know our history, and acknowledge that if we are ever to return to Israel, it will be at G-d's will, and not at the behest of a state led by political extremists.

Don't presume to put your words in our mouths.

 

[purplex]

When the palestinians stop voting terrorists into power and launching sick, cowardly attacks on israel they will get my full support, until that time i dont care much for them to be honest, they cause nothing but trouble in the region.

 

[ViolentPanda]

When the palestinians stop voting terrorists into power and launching sick, cowardly attacks on israel they will get my full support, until that time i dont care much for them to be honest, they cause nothing but trouble in the region.

So, you wish to remove the democratic right of Palestinians to vote for whoever they wish to?
You want them to stop resisting the incursions and the oppression of the state of Israel?
And in return you'll give "them" your full support?

Do you think your support is that valuable? From where I sit, your support is so one-sided and conditional it isn't worth a bag of warm horse-shit.

 

[HackneyE9]

anyone who is fully aware of the facts and **SUPPORTS** Israeli actions after this is a fucking cunt.

he always used to be a decent guy. come on mate where the fuck is you're humanity?

No he didn't.

He used to be Keyboard Jockey, obsessed with dissing Ken on fact-free rants, and bigging up Boris, whilst banging on about how "left wing" he was really. Y'know. Deep down.

 

[purplex]

So, you wish to remove the democratic right of Palestinians to vote for whoever they wish to?
You want them to stop resisting the incursions and the oppression of the state of Israel?
And in return you'll give "them" your full support?

Do you think your support is that valuable? From where I sit, your support is so one-sided and conditional it isn't worth a bag of warm horse-shit.

No my support doesnt mean shit, nothing i do will prevent this barbaric behaviour, if you cant see that there is no single issue over there that cant be resolved around a table and doesnt require force there is no hope, supporting terrorism is not the answer. Fuck the hamas murderers and the hate and destruction they spread.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No my support doesnt mean shit, nothing i do will prevent this barbaric behaviour, if you cant see that there is no single issue over there that cant be resolved around a table and doesnt require force there is no hope, supporting terrorism is not the answer.

I absolutely agree.
And yet you appear perfectly willing to excuse the terrorism perpetrated by the state of Israel by confining your condemnation to a single actor in the drama.

Fuck the hamas murderers and the hate and destruction they spread.

See what I mean?

 

[ViolentPanda]

No he didn't.

He used to be Keyboard Jockey, obsessed with dissing Ken on fact-free rants, and bigging up Boris, whilst banging on about how "left wing" he was really. Y'know. Deep down.

And back before that, in the mists of antiquity when froggie was still a schoolgirl, and I was slightly less grey-haired than I am now, he was a reasonable left-ish bloke with a lunatic for a live-in partner.
Then he got out of that situation, hooked up with a "nice Jewish girl" (as I believe they're still called ), and took several large steps to the right.

Draw whatever conclusions from the above that you wish to.

 

[purplex]

I absolutely agree.
And yet you appear perfectly willing to excuse the terrorism perpetrated by the state of Israel by confining your condemnation to a single actor in the drama.

See what I mean?

Without the provocation there would be no bombing of hamas targets, hamas brought this on their own people.

 

[spring-peeper]

Without the provocation there would be no bombing of hamas targets, hamas brought this on their own people.

If it wasn't Hamas, it would be another group.

Maybe more time should be spent trying to deal with the causes of their anger before it ends in violence and aggression.

 

[N_igma]

hamas brought this on their own people.

How far back do you want to go though? Don't you think Israel's actions over the past 60 years bring this on their own people too? It's a classic "whatabouterry" case, much similar to the situation where I live.