Israel in coordinated missile attacks on Gaza

[Dimitris]

Well maybe you are right Fuchs66, but anyway I am sure that we are talking about rockets that can easily be seen on radar.. There must be some "ground to air" missiles of some sort that you can fire upon them.

Even if there are not, this still does not justify a full scale attack with so many civilian casualties.

 

[camouflage]

Isreal probably planned this as soon as Obama won the election, it might be their last chance to kick Gaza for awhile so best to bomb what they wanna bomb now.

 

[TomUS]

Isreal probably planned this as soon as Obama won the election, it might be their last chance to kick Gaza for awhile so best to bomb what they wanna bomb now.

I read (on Haaretz I think) they started the planning right after they agreed on the 6 mo "truce" with Hamas. They began intense intel gathering on the Hamas infrastructure & how to destroy it. When it was clear Hamas wouldn't keep the "truce" after it expired, Israel put the plan into motion.

 

[Spion]

imo Hamas did a mistake to use force against Fatah some months ago and exclude them from the Gaza strip.

Factual point - it was Fatah who were tooled up by the US and who were about to launch a coup that precipitated the Hamas response

 

[durruti02]

they might be willing to "stop" but they aren't willing to let fishermen fish in the sea or let humanitarian aid through

seeing this as a "war" is a complete mistake.

and has has been repeatedly pointed out, hamas aren't even the ones firing the rockets

no it is a war .. a very oneside war but still a war .. for territory .. zionism thinks they should have this area .. arab nationlism thinks it should .. the arabs lost .. we all lose

and hamas ARE firing rockets, maybe not all but you are not correct to say they are not ..

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Jesus Hussein Christ last summer:

President-elect Barack Obama has voiced sympathy for Israel’s predicament. During his visit to Israel last summer, he held a news conference in Sderot, the southern town that has borne the brunt of the Gaza rocket attacks, saying he does not “think any country would find it acceptable to have missiles raining down on the heads of their citizens.”

“If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I’m going to do everything in my power to stop that,” Obama said at the time. “And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing."

Meanwhile:

Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip have been ongoing through the night, with civilian houses and medical centres being targeted by Israeli air-strikes.

 

[Zachor]

I read (on Haaretz I think) they started the planning right after they agreed on the 6 mo "truce" with Hamas. They began intense intel gathering on the Hamas infrastructure & how to destroy it. When it was clear Hamas wouldn't keep the "truce" after it expired, Israel put the plan into motion.

That certainly seems like the case. It does seem that the IAF have fabulous intellegence about Hamas assets and locations. Although there are going to be regrettable casualties amongst civilians accurate intelligence and the avoidance of area bombing will hopefully reduce the number of casualties. According to one news report I read ( I think on Haaretz - will try to find later when less busy) the IDF took over all the mobile phone services in Gaza a short time before the attacks to send texts to warn Gazans to stay away from Hamas buildings and assets. If people have obeyed this instruction then it has probably saved many innocent lives.

 

[durruti02]

imo Hamas did a mistake to use force against Fatah some months ago and exclude them from the Gaza strip. Now that Israel strikes again (as it has happened during the last 60 years) they are alone, and clearly cannot defend against IDF.

Israel is more than happy to fight against Hamas and Fatah one by one rather than a combined force of them, as it used to be years ago.

Internal conflicts when you have such a big enemy next to you are not really helpfull ...

The israeli state of course is not "defending" from Hamas attack.... This is a full scale attack against civilians, against the palestinian people.. It is not the first time that this has happened though, Hamas should have expected this to happen sooner or later anyway.

If Israel wanted to defend they have enough Patriot missiles to defend the lame 80s technology rockets that Hamas (or maybe Fatah) fires.

I did not expect anything better from the other arab governments, they all get economic aid from US and therefore are never going to take a clear position in this. Turkey is quick enough to condemn the Israeli attacks, but they "forget" that they are doing the same against the kurds... Turkish elections are approaching Erdogan wants to be friendly with his public... He was trying to negotiate in the area anyway, this attack clearly destroyes his work in the area..

Hamas are no "angels" really... Do not forget that they are controlled a lot by Iran, Iran could be using them for their own benefit. Obama has stated that he wants to approach Iran, thereofore Israel would like to "remind" Obama that Hamas are "terrorists", an are controlled by Iran, so any approach would be an approach with a country that "supports terrorism".

The situation is not exactly "black and white" and it is really confused, the only real victims are the people of palestine.

good post

 

[Spion]

and hamas ARE firing rockets, maybe not all but you are not correct to say they are not ..

Yes, sometimes they do. But should we equate the violence of the oppressed and the violence of the oppressor? The violence of decades of racism, of ethnic cleansing, of siege has produced a violent response (though it is dwarfed by the violence we see from the Israeli state).

Are you also condemning Greek rioters who throw rocks and petrol bombs at Greek cops?

 

[Kevicious]

Good to see that the BBC's neutral reporting is spot on as usual:

"Earlier, a raid destroyed a science building at the Islamic University in Gaza - a centre of support for the Islamist militant group that controls the narrow coastal strip. Many top Hamas officials graduated from there."

I mean, if someone graduated from a particular university, it's only right that you should bomb the fuck out of it. Especially since after graduating they got into politics and won an election under UN supervision.

It's the same appalling coverage that we got (get) from Iraq. However many "militants" / "insurgents" killed, but no analysis of what these phrases mean or who the people really were. Does joining Hamas make you a legitimate target? Or am I to believe that these air strikes are so accurate that they managed to specifically pick out 200 individual Hamas members involved in organising / firing rockets? Are people really accepting these terms and figures because I find them ludicrous....

As long as this kind of shallow, slanted reporting continues the Israeli war machine will be perfectly free to carry on as it is.

 

[Zachor]

Good to see that the BBC's neutral reporting is spot on as usual:

"Earlier, a raid destroyed a science building at the Islamic University in Gaza - a centre of support for the Islamist militant group that controls the narrow coastal strip. Many top Hamas officials graduated from there."

I mean, if someone graduated from a particular university, it's only right that you should bomb the fuck out of it. Especially since after graduating they got into politics and won an election under UN supervision.

It's the same appalling coverage that we got (get) from Iraq. However many "militants" / "insurgents" killed, but no analysis of what these phrases mean or who the people really were. Does joining Hamas make you a legitimate target? Or am I to believe that these air strikes are so accurate that they managed to specifically pick out 200 individual Hamas members involved in organising / firing rockets? Are people really accepting these terms and figures because I find them ludicrous....

As long as this kind of shallow, slanted reporting continues the Israeli war machine will be perfectly free to carry on as it is.

I completely agree that the BBC is a bastion of bent reporting over this issue I've been shocked by the general anti Israel tone of some of the BBC reports and a seemingly blind acceptance of figures for casualties and damage which are being propagated by the Hamas terrorists.

Yes the BEEB is biased but against Israel.

 

[Kevicious]

I completely agree that the BBC is a bastion of bent reporting over this issue I've been shocked by the general anti Israel tone of some of the BBC reports and a seemingly blind acceptance of figures for casualties and damage which are being propagated by the Hamas terrorists.

Yes the BEEB is biased but against Israel.

Can you back this point up with some sort of evidence / analysis? Seems from your assured tone that there will be a wealth of material for you to show us.

 

[teqniq]

Gaza ceasefire petition from Avaaz:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/gaza_time_for_peace/?cl=161472875&v=2605

 

[Zachor]

Can you back this point up with some sort of evidence / analysis? Seems from your assured tone that there will be a wealth of material for you to show us.

How about viewing some of the reports that the BBC have been giving which concentrates on the number of dead but have failed to point out that the Israeli millitary have done their best to target only Hamas assets and I dont' recall the BBC mentioning in any significant way the relentless bombardment of Israeli towns by Hamas / Islamic Jihad / Insert jew hating fash group here.

Also the BBC isn't mentioning the humanitarian aid that has been supplied to the people of Gaza over the last few years which has been impounded by Hamas and used only for the benefit of their own supporters.

And a recent Radio 4 programme about the smuggling tunnels which portrayed the tunnel builders as eager beaver small time capitalists trying to make a meager living instead of smugglers of weaponry that is being aimed at the only properly democratic state in the region.

Methinks judging by your choice of words such as 'Israeli war machine' that you should go out and look at some more balanced sources of information yourself.

 

[diego]

Good to see that the BBC's neutral reporting is spot on as usual:

"Earlier, a raid destroyed a science building at the Islamic University in Gaza - a centre of support for the Islamist militant group that controls the narrow coastal strip. Many top Hamas officials graduated from there."

I mean, if someone graduated from a particular university, it's only right that you should bomb the fuck out of it. Especially since after graduating they got into politics and won an election under UN supervision.

It's the same appalling coverage that we got (get) from Iraq. However many "militants" / "insurgents" killed, but no analysis of what these phrases mean or who the people really were. Does joining Hamas make you a legitimate target? Or am I to believe that these air strikes are so accurate that they managed to specifically pick out 200 individual Hamas members involved in organising / firing rockets? Are people really accepting these terms and figures because I find them ludicrous....

As long as this kind of shallow, slanted reporting continues the Israeli war machine will be perfectly free to carry on as it is.

Yes but what else can we expect from the media, especially British Media. Apart from this massacre I sometimes are unable to believe how many "respected" journalists can stand and report one-sidedly usually about "Islamists" and "extremists" during the numerous conflicts around the world and all this and they dont even bat an eyelid.

Then you have people (including on this forum) who say there is no conspiracy?

Its no wonder muslims especially the young asian Brits we see now feel agrieved, but they are brushed aside as brainwashed "Fundamentalists". Its this media that is doing the brainwashing! But fortunately people are waking up to what is really going on. However if we are to stop the type of terrorism seen displayed by the Isareli Govt more people need to be made aware and more pressure needs to be applied to govts around the world, Pressure where it matters!

 

[Spion]

How about viewing some of the reports that the BBC have been giving which concentrates on the number of dead but have failed to point out that the Israeli millitary have done their best to target only Hamas assets and I dont' recall the BBC mentioning in any significant way the relentless bombardment of Israeli towns by Hamas / Islamic Jihad / Insert jew hating fash group here.

Also the BBC isn't mentioning the humanitarian aid that has been supplied to the people of Gaza over the last few years which has been impounded by Hamas and used only for the benefit of their own supporters.

All of this is on BBC reports. You're turning into a Zionist Goebbels with your disregard for the facts and seeming belief that if you present your view often enough people will believe it

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I agree but you surely must "start" at a more conciliatory level in order to get things moving or you will get nowhere.

again this comment shows you lack of knowledge about this subject or apperntly diplomacy in general.

you can't impose diktats from outside parties you have to engauge those directly responsible. you starting point is often far from concilitory it's often met with open hostility, distrust and suspiscion. how coudl it not be, people have been fighting in this region for nearly 100 years.

short of turning the entirity of gaza into a no mans land of corpses lsrael and the world are going to have to deal directly with hamas at some point because they are the democratically elected choice of the people.

perhaps it would be good to start up you reading on the subject if you looked at why palestinians felt they had no other viable option than to vote into power what is considered a terrorist group.

find out what their policies were away from the polemic headline grabbing FUD of drive them into the sea or such like and find out what it was that appealled so much to the palestinians both in palestine and around the world.

understand the history of these events and you would then understand why this current escalation is not only wrong and immoral, as have been the actions of the well financed state who practice systemic aysymetrical warfare.

and until you do read up and learn about the subject i'm afraid the only reason for you posting on this thread is to flatter your own ego and psuh your own rather posionious and twisted interpretation of the situation from a stand point of utter ignorance.

There's little point in engauging your posts because in order to do them justice and to entirely refute them would mean having to reguitate the entire historical context both present and past in order to frame any response.

It's un reasonable to expect others on the thread to fill in the missing gaps in your knowledge of the subject especially when the information is free and readily avaiable and you have suffeicent internet knowledge to use a bulletin board so you can sure as hell use google.

you also need to learn to evaluate your soruce material for bias on both sides so never let a single POV polarise your understanding of the situation read around your subject. and if you're not preparred to do that then i'm afraid that your continued posting on this thread is some what limited to background noise.

 

[diego]

I think a fine example of British media "at its best" was Sky news' Anna Botting, and the spanking Galloway gave her, no pun intended!

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

How eloquent, do you suffer from tourettes?

it would be an insane response not to swear and curse with the utter nonsense you are spewing forth.

and frankly either you beleive that standpoint to be true in which case fuck you aren't worth piss, or you are repeating another's opinion based on sqewed data or information which makes you ignorant.

either way the sentiment of either unthinkly parroting someone elses lies or being a racist fuckwit isn't much enamouring you to others...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You're real reason for being pissed off with him is cos he has moved South of the River to Gods own country - ie the Sunny Uplands of the South London Scarp!!!

I believe he has swapped hackney for Sydenham

Sorry for the derail but I could not resist - the next post is on topic

 

[TAE]

i find people referring to israel as a jewish state fucking offensive tbh.

I have the same problem with people calling US/UK christian states.

 

[Kevicious]

How about viewing some of the reports that the BBC have been giving which concentrates on the number of dead but have failed to point out that the Israeli millitary have done their best to target only Hamas assets and I dont' recall the BBC mentioning in any significant way the relentless bombardment of Israeli towns by Hamas / Islamic Jihad / Insert jew hating fash group here.

Also the BBC isn't mentioning the humanitarian aid that has been supplied to the people of Gaza over the last few years which has been impounded by Hamas and used only for the benefit of their own supporters.

And a recent Radio 4 programme about the smuggling tunnels which portrayed the tunnel builders as eager beaver small time capitalists trying to make a meager living instead of smugglers of weaponry that is being aimed at the only properly democratic state in the region.

Methinks judging by your choice of words such as 'Israeli war machine' that you should go out and look at some more balanced sources of information yourself.

OK, let's see what I can come up with in the 5 minutes I've got left at my computer...

1.) Under todays headline story, entitled "Israel strikes key Hamas offices", the first line states:
"Israeli air raids have pounded the Gaza Strip for a third day, hitting key sites linked to militant group Hamas."

2.) No, no mention of the holding of humanitarian aid by the BBC as far as I can remember. I agree that it should if this is the case. I would also expect an equal space for Hamas and NGOs to have a view on this too.
More importantly, let us remember that humanitarian aid is another form of control being exerted over Palestinians by Israel, NOT some kind of benevelent gift. If Palestine was allowed the freedoms of most of the rest of the world (i.e. movement, economy, etc) then this would cease to be an issue.

3.) Didn't hear the Radio 4 programme so can't honestly comment. I imagine some people are smuggling weaponry in, although I doubt they have managed to get many fighter planes, tanks or cluster bombs through though.
And in yesterday's headline article entitled "Israeli jets target Gaza tunnels" it states "Israel accuses Palestinian militants of using the tunnels to smuggle weapons into Gaza.". There seemd to be no quote from the Palestinmians saying what the tunnels were used for.

4.) And Israeli war machine sounds realistic tio me, as does the British / US war machine in Iraq, etc, etc.

gotta go...

 

[TAE]

... the vast majority of Jews in the diaspora say that the creation of "the Jewish state" was Gods fufilment of its promise to Jews ...

If that were true, then why have they not moved there?

Then Jewish people will be judged by what "the jewish state" does.

Those jewish people who do not live there have no say in what Israel does, so why should they be judged by it's actions?

 

[frogwoman]

I have the same problem with people calling US/UK christian states.

Yep.

 

[diego]

it would be an insane response not to swear and curse with the utter nonsense you are spewing forth.

and frankly either you beleive that standpoint to be true in which case fuck you aren't worth piss, or you are repeating another's opinion based on sqewed data or information which makes you ignorant.

either way the sentiment of either unthinkly parroting someone elses lies or being a racist fuckwit isn't much enamouring you to others...

I didn't know VP had a secretary

Can we have some examples of "my skewed data" please?

 

[TAE]

Factual point - it was Fatah who were tooled up by the US and who were about to launch a coup that precipitated the Hamas response

Indeed, once again the US/UK support a coup against the democratically elected government.

 

[Citizen66]

Actually all sides in this are following their faith & that's a large part of the problem. Our god is the true god, god gave us this land, the other guys are going to hell, we have to stand by this or that side because they are on our god's team like us or the book of blah blah says blah blah........

The holy books talk peace & love but mainly superiority & domination.....just pours gas on a fire.

Ah, but, Don't the Jews get their promised land AFTER they get their messiah?

And didn't they kill him and stuff?

 

[Zachor]

And didn't they kill him and stuff?

Nah he weren't the Messiah he was a naughty boy.

 

[Citizen66]

Nah he weren't the Messiah he was a naughty boy.

And his mum looked like a bloke in drag.

 

[TAE]

Israel declares the area around Gaza a closed military zone as its jets attack for a third day, hitting symbols of Hamas rule.

Symbols? Not military targets??