Israel in coordinated missile attacks on Gaza

[agricola]

With respect, Zionism and Judaism are inextricably linked. In much the same way Al-Qaeda and Islam are. They can both get fucked as far as I'm concerned. If you took the religious aspect out of those movements (Al-Q and Zionism) they wouldn't exist. It's PC bullshit to ignore that fact.

You are talking rubbish. There are sizeable parts of Jewish thought that are actively anti-zionist, to say nothing of the obvious fact (which is as true as it is for al-Q and islam) that the religion came first, and the political theory co-opted the useful parts of it and ignored / slandered those who did not go along with it.

Zionism is not Judaism, and its usually only anti-semites and zionists who claim that it is. Which are you?

 

[durruti02]

No more stupid than the point he was addressing, to be fair.

The state of Israel exists in it's current form due to those influences, true, but that isn't a reason not to wish a fair fight on the IDF and IAF. It's hardly as if that wish is going to be granted by the armaments fairy, is it?

what armaments fairy? the idea is just ludicrous .. hey lets have a REALLY big war in palestine .. cool! THERE IS NO MILITARY SOLUTION so belboids fantasy of 'better' hamas weapons si just really silly

 

[durruti02]

Do you honestly think that we can support your Protocols of Elders of Mecca camel-shit in your pathetic attempts to support Israel?? You only contribute to untold damage over the long term.

what you deny there is refernece to it in hamas?

 

[durruti02]

I doubt anyone from this board could get in, never mind a bloke with a beard and an RPG-7. Come to that, actual Gazans have enough trouble getting in.

See how much trouble and beatings this guy got

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/07/06/shin-bet-tortures-gaza-journalist/

spion is it correct that hamas missiles are now better than ever . there is stuff getting in .. there were 200 hundred tunnels .. but the accusation is hamas has used these for their control rather than peoples needs ..

 

[durruti02]

They do, you dick. The Fatah-associated Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade also fire them.

spion if ANYONE fires anything in gaza it is with the permission and support of hamas ..

 

[bolshiebhoy]

The EU response doesnt surprise me though - they are fucking useless in every other sphere of their existence, so its no surprise that they are speaking rubbish here.

Fair enough in principle. But their statement tonight does kind of contradict their earlier mealy mouthed statement about 'disproportionate response' in reaction to the air bombardment. If a fecking air campaign was disproportionate then an actual incursion with the greater danger to civilian lives it involves has to be even more disproportionate surely? Whether it's because they've been got at or what they do seem to have shifted into an even worse, more craven position.

 

[gabi]

Zionism is not Judaism, and its usually only anti-semites and zionists who claim that it is. Which are you?

You're missing a third group. Atheists. That's all I consider myself.

It's undeniable religion is the key to zionism. Where do you think the term 'the promised land' came from??

Zionism is an international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine (Hebrew: Eretz Yisra'el, "the Land of Israel"), and continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.[1]

Zionism is partly based upon strong historical ties and religious traditions linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel, where the concept of Jewish nationhood first evolved somewhere between 1200 BCE and the late Second Temple era (i.e. up to 70 CE).[2][3] The modern movement was mainly secular in its origins, beginning largely as a response by European Jewry to antisemitism across Europe.[4] It is a branch of the broader phenomenon of modern nationalism.[5] At first one of several Jewish political movements offering alternative responses to the position of Jews in Europe, Zionism grew rapidly, and after the Holocaust became the dominant Jewish political movement.

The political movement was formally established by the Austro-Hungarian journalist Theodor Herzl in the late 19th century.[6] The movement seeks to encourage Jewish migration to the Promised Land and was eventually successful in establishing Israel in 1948, as the homeland for the Jewish people. Its proponents regard its aim as self-determination for the Jewish people.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

They're inseparable, like it or not.

 

[agricola]

spion is it correct that hamas missiles are now better than ever . there is stuff getting in .. there were 200 hundred tunnels .. but the accusation is hamas has used these for their control rather than peoples needs ..

This is one of the more mentalist arguments that is doing the rounds.

It assumes that the tunnels are needed to supply the citizens of Gaza - which if its true, pretty much demolishes the (ludicrous) argument that there is not a humanitarian crisis in Gaza thanks to the Israeli blockade. Since there is a humanitarian crisis thanks to the blockade, how the fuck is it Hamas' fault that they dont use the tunnels to smuggle in food (the amounts of which would surely dwarf that which the tunnels could supply - food for millions is after all measured in tens/hundreds of tonnes daily) when its the IDF (and their Egyptian allies) that is the one doing the blockading?

 

[durruti02]

It is widely known Hamas is a good as an Israely construction to undermine the PLO. Divide and conquer, old techinique and as stupid and logically backfiring as it always was.
History leaves humanity blind because humanity reinvents itself under the delusion that it is writing new chapters.

Your trick to bring the spin doctor's scare mongering about "iran gets the bomb" thus trying desperately to create link between hamas - BOMB Israel - Iran is well noted. (Don't know what ethiopian kids have to do with it, though.)

salaam

spin doctor why?? .. iran supports hamas .. simple .. ( as the us supports israel ) financially and militaryly .. if iran had any sort of dirty bomb it would affect israel and palestine ..

ethiopian kids have been kille din rocket attacks in israel

 

[likesfish]

as hideous as the idf air campaign is its not genocide to pretend it is dishonest.
they are using precision weapons. although calling air strikes into the middle of a city is way beyond a yellow card.
plastic explosive does burn in small amounts in large amounts it will explode hence never found anyone who has tried to brew up with small amounts of PE (C4)
compare and contrast down town Chenchenya and downtown gaza city.
The IDF genuinely do not want to kill civilians though they want to kill hamas rather more than they wish to avoid civy casualties
The Russians did'nt give a monkeys.
Not saying what the Israeli's are doing is good just that it could be a hell of a lot worse

 

[durruti02]

This is one of the more mentalist arguments that is doing the rounds.

It assumes that the tunnels are needed to supply the citizens of Gaza - which if its true, pretty much demolishes the (ludicrous) argument that there is not a humanitarian crisis in Gaza thanks to the Israeli blockade. Since there is a humanitarian crisis thanks to the blockade, how the fuck is it Hamas' fault that they dont use the tunnels to smuggle in food (the amounts of which would surely dwarf that which the tunnels could supply - food for millions is after all measured in tens/hundreds of tonnes daily) when its the IDF (and their Egyptian allies) that is the one doing the blockading?

well it depends on what you want to believe .. if you believe hamas are fluffy and not interested in destroying israel in the short long or medium turn you will believe the blockade is toatlly and utterly wrong and that hamas would not use a ceasefire to build up their military base . on the other hand

 

[durruti02]

It's fuck all to do with rockets. It's a political war to destroy Hamas and to boost pre-electoin Kadima poll rating. Israel wants a compliant Araberat in Gaza like the Judenrate of the WW2 ghettoes that will acquiesce to the results of its ethnic cleansing. It hates that it doesn't have that

israel = nazis ..

spion you really have no idea

 

[frogwoman]

i agree that it is not genocide or that zionism = nazism (isn't it bad enough without being compared to hitler?), however, as in the past, I dont think the IDF give a shit about avoiding civilian casualties. They very rarely have, especially in Gaza.

 

[soulman]

Shameless bullying thieves. I think as in the case of 9.11/Iraq, global sympathy quickly faded, this will be the end of any sympathy for the holocaust. Zionist, genocidal cunts.

So holocaust denial is an appropriate response to what's happening. You're showing your true colours now you nasty little twat.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

It's undeniable religion is the key to zionism.

Course it's deniable. zionism wouldn't exist without judaism but that doesn't mean judaism=zionism. Any more than dutch calvinism=apartheid.

 

[agricola]

well it depends on what you want to believe .. if you believe hamas are fluffy and not interested in destroying israel in the short long or medium turn you will believe the blockade is toatlly and utterly wrong and that hamas would not use a ceasefire to build up their military base . on the other hand

This argument on the other hand is properly mentalist.

I have no illusions about what Hamas are and what they stand for. However, it is (or should be) blatantly obvious that (a) they were the democratic choice of Palestinians at the last election and (b) that this democratic choice has been met with an almost unanimous "fuck you" from the rest of the world.

We have not had the opportunity to see what would have happened if someone had diplomatically engaged with Hamas (indeed, I am aware of only one politician from the West of any kind of international stature who even suggested it), instead we have let the Israelis blow the shit out of Gaza and Gazans for the past week. Viva democracy!

 

[durruti02]

I do find it deeply ironic that apologists for zionism always ask "why don't you pay attention to other atrocities around the globe" when it usually seems the only reason why they do so is to deflect attention away from the crimes of the zionist state?

except when israel is being attacked when do they ever talk about these atrocities? when do they ever try and do anything about it?

leaving aside the qhole fact that israel has its fingers in many pies anyway (supplying weapons to the burmese junta etc) how many of these people actually take the trouble to take any form of action over other atrocities in the world? how many active supporters of Israel and zionism - and by that i mean people who take an actively pro-zionsit stance knowing all of the facts, rather than someone who's just ignorant - went on the burma protests? the tibet protests? do they actually give a shit?

i think the point is frogwoman that maybe to an extent ( as outrage anger etc is justified) that some people including me think that the left (swp stwc etc) have had this disasterous patronising pro muslim far right tactic and that this is very dangeorus .. it is sending out a message to kids in bradford or wherever that these are not geopolitical imperialist issues but issues based in race and relegion .. the consequences of this tactic for jews and muslims ( and the w/c generally ) in this country are equally potentially disasterous

 

[durruti02]

This argument on the other hand is properly mentalist.

I have no illusions about what Hamas are and what they stand for. However, it is (or should be) blatantly obvious that (a) they were the democratic choice of Palestinians at the last election and (b) that this democratic choice has been met with an almost unanimous "fuck you" from the rest of the world.

We have not had the opportunity to see what would have happened if someone had diplomatically engaged with Hamas (indeed, I am aware of only one politician from the West of any kind of international stature who even suggested it), instead we have let the Israelis blow the shit out of Gaza and Gazans for the past week. Viva democracy!

and the bnp are democratically elected in dagenham and hitler was 'democratically' elected in 1933 .. so fucking what .. hamas are nasty fascist racist fundamentalist scum who are driving the palestinian people to their graves as we speak .. i entirely understand their genisis and why the gazan peopel voted for them .. but it is NOT a positive thing .. it is entirely negative ..

 

[Jeff Robinson]

and the bnp are democratically elected in dagenham and hitler was 'democratically' elected in 1933 .. so fucking what .. hamas are nasty fascist racist fundamentalist scum who are driving the palestinian people to their graves as we speak .. i entirely understand their genisis and why the gazan peopel voted for them .. but it is NOT a positive thing .. it is entirely negative ..

The Israeli missiles, and now ground troops, are sending Palestinians to their graves. In the hundreds. Now. Get a sense of fucking perspective.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

israel = nazis ..

Hang on a mo. You don't have to equate israel with the nazis (and I doubt few would) to think there's a huge irony in a state that claims to honour the victims of the Warsaw ghetto fight using the same siege tactics against Gaza. Using the same principle of you kill one of us and we kill a hundred of you. This isn't the holocaust but anyone with an ounce of common can see that zionism is based on ethnic cleansing, from gaza to south lebanon.

 

[untethered]

The Israeli missiles, and now ground troops, are sending Palestinians to their graves. In the hundreds. Now. Get a sense of f- perspective.

That's interesting.

Incidentally, why is your tagline "knife a Tory"?

Are you hoping that someone will do what you suggest?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

That's interesting.

Cheers.

 

[agricola]

and the bnp are democratically elected in dagenham and hitler was 'democratically' elected in 1933 .. so fucking what .. hamas are nasty fascist racist fundamentalist scum who are driving the palestinian people to their graves as we speak .. i entirely understand their genisis and why the gazan peopel voted for them .. but it is NOT a positive thing .. it is entirely negative ..

Do you even know why they were elected in?

 

[durruti02]

Sadly the only way to get humanitarian aid in now is for there to be a big ground offensive followed up by a massive humanitarian aid and reconstruction programme. You will need the military to guard the aid workers other wise they will just be picked off or kidnapped by the remnants of Hamas.

sorry belboid .. this beats your idea of bigger missiles for hamas as the stupidest idea on here so far .. KBJ, do you really think these things thru? so you supported the invasion of iraq on simiar grounds and afghan did you to bring peace and freedom and hand put falafel? and zimbabwe? are you condeleeza rice in disguise?? these invasions are a;lwasy doomed ..
israel could sort hamas overnight if it spent a fraction of its military spending on aid for the PLA, started to deal with the return and stopped building apartheid settlements

 

[durruti02]

Do you even know why they were elected in?

of course .. but you tell me

 

[untethered]

Cheers.

You don't seem to have answered my question.

Would you like Tories to be knifed?

 

[durruti02]

I also would prefer that this action wasn't necessary. Sadly it was and I don't see how the Israeli govt could have resisted the political pressure to do something about Hamas. The problem is now there is no way to get humanitarian aid into Gaza without cover from ground troops.

and i bought you a pint :O

 

[Jeff Robinson]

You don't seem to have answered my question.

Would you like Tories to be knifed?

Off topic question. PM me if you want. Or start a fresh thread.

 

[untethered]

Off topic question. PM me if you want. Or start a fresh thread.

You seem to have afforded it a response here already so it would be no loss to actually answer the question.

 

[brix]

You seem to have afforded it a response here already so it would be no loss to actually answer the question.

You are an arse aren't you.

Just because you're the only one who takes the taglines seriously.

I'm not actually expecting you to mind the tram by the way.