Israel in coordinated missile attacks on Gaza

[agricola]

I do love it when new posters come here and tell it like it is. Or not, as the case may be.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

source

Looks like Israel is actively targetting the areas with the heaviest population density. As a rough guide the Gaza Strip as a whole has a population density about that of Central London. As you can see, the built-up areas that the Israelis are bombing the shit out of form a small part of that total and hence have a population density considerably higher than that of Central London.

Bear that in mind when you hear Israeli spin-doctors using words like 'surgical strikes' and 'minimising civilian casualties'

 

[ViolentPanda]

What can I say you really are a wanker. Perhaps you want to go back and look through the posts.
And I'm the ignorant cretin

I'm happy to hold my hands up. I was wrong, I was responding to you. My apologies.

My point still stands, though.

The original post to which I was responding is Judaeophobic. You couldn't be bothered to separate Israelis as the citizens of a nation-state from the actions of members of the apparatus of the state.

Never mind the subject, your posting history in general shows that some of your responses display classic symptoms of a deranged idiot who thinks everyone else is stupid, your reactions full of any bit of garbage that comes to your deranged mind. Perhaps you have mental issues as well.

Ah, you have a masters degree in psychoanalytic theory, do you?
Unless you do, please keep your canting diagnoses to yourself. Thanks.

What was that you just said?

Wow, I've done it the once, and boy am I embarrassed !
But, taking it in context, it's fuck-all compared to...just how many times have different posters pulled you up on your crap?

 

[EddyBlack]

'Oh I'm Anti-zionist alright, but certainly not anti-semite, as techinically that would mean I am also anti-arab, but dicks like you obviously don't know that.'

That is a typical remark of an anti-semite. It is a smart arse little comment that they always roll out. You don't like Jews is the clear implication, and I imagine you are some kind of white-supremicist.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Looks like the Israelis plan to continue committing war crimes for at least a few weeks.

Israel says it is ready for "long weeks of action" as it continues its fiercest air assault on Gaza for decades to stamp out militant rocket attacks.

Palestinian officials say 10 people died in the latest attacks, taking the death toll to over 360 since Saturday. Four Israelis have died in rocket fire.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said this was the "first of several stages" of military action.

A UN human rights monitor accused Israel of "shocking atrocities".

Richard Falk - the special rapporteur for human rights in the Palestinian territories - said the international community must put more pressure on Israel to end its attacks on Gaza.

"Israel is committing a shocking series of atrocities by using modern weaponry against a defenceless population - attacking a population that has been enduring a severe blockade for many months," Mr Falk said in a BBC interview.

source

 

[Random]

What party is Elena Theoharous a MP for? Can't find her on google.

Anyway, fair play to all of those trying to ge the supplies in from Cyprus.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I find myself wondering, since these war crimes are effectively Olmert's election campaign, if the idea isn't to launch a ground assault to try to wipe out the humiliation inflicted on Olmert when his ground attack against Hezbollah failed?

 

[Random]

I find myself wondering, since these war crimes are effectively Olmert's election campaign, if the idea isn't to launch a ground assault to try to wipe out the humiliation inflicted on Olmert when his ground attack against Hezbollah failed?

Well it looks like they're not mobilizing any more troops than what's needed to simply properly seal the borders. But then on the other hand they successfully bluffed Hamas into thinking there were no air strikes on the way... But then again, how do you hide the mobilization of 100,000+ reservists up your sleeve? An invasion of Gaza, with house to house fighting, will make Lebannon look like a tea party. Nothing to chew up a Merkarva like a tight inner city environment plus molotovs and mines...

My answer to your question is that he wants to cure 'lebannon syndrome' just like the US cured 'veitnam syndrome' - by avoiding ground assaults and relying on air superiority.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Hmm, well you're probably right. I guess we'll see.

 

[Dimitris]

What party is Elena Theoharous a MP for? Can't find her on google.

Anyway, fair play to all of those trying to ge the supplies in from Cyprus.

http://www.parliament.cy/parliamentgr/003_02_biography/theocharous_eleni.htm

Her info (in greek) from the cypriot parliament webpage.

She is an MP in Cyprus for the political party Democratic Rally (DISY) - (Christian Democrats)

Their webpage in english: http://www.disy.org.cy/default.asp?id=309

 

[frogwoman]

israel's gone mad.

stark. raving. insane.

President Shimon Peres said earlier Tuesday that as a man who had lived through all of Israel's war, he could confirm that the Israel Defense Force's current operation in the Gaza Strip was like no other.

Speaking to reporters along side IDF Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi, Peres said that the goal of the current operation was not just to stop the continuing rocket fire from Gaza, but to put a halt to terror worldwide.

"Terror is a worldwide problem, and it is ours as well," Peres said.

"Israel is not fighting the Palestinian population but a terrorist organization whose raison d'etre is continued violence and destabilizing the region," said Peres, who also remarked that Hamas bears responsibility for the situation unfolding in Gaza.

"Nobody in this world understands what are Hamas' goals and why it continues to fire missiles," the president said. "This shooting has no point, no logic, and no chance."

do these people live on the same planet as everyone else?

 

[Dimitris]

[ 29.12.2008 ]
Report from Gaza, Sunday 29/12/2008

From a comrade, member of the greek intifada collective who is now in Gaza.
(Translation in english by me)

Yesterday the bombarding was continuing throughout the day. After the bombing of a pharmaceuticals storage building 100 meters further from where I was sleeping, and a iron craftwork shop on the same street, other targets were also hit, among them and the old government building. Before sunset multiple hits were made. We got on the roof top and were looking at the tunnel area to be hit by bombs. I took a video as well, I will try to post it.

The video is here :

Also one more video from the same comrade showing the bombings at the tunnel ....

 

[goebfwai]

Well done in particular to the Cypriot parliamentarians who have taken part in the mercy mission. It is good to see such high profile people take such an active role standing up for human rights and international law and providing humanitarian assistance.

Video: Damaged Gaza aid boat docks in southern Lebanon - 30 Dec 08 AlJazeeraEnglish
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRghMmgQ1kA&eurl

 

[diego]

I'm happy to hold my hands up. I was wrong, I was responding to you. My apologies.

Oh damn right you are you have no choice after being fucked in such a way!

The original post to which I was responding is Judaeophobic. You couldn't be bothered to separate Israelis as the citizens of a nation-state from the actions of members of the apparatus of the state.

Quite right I couldn't be bothered, though not because I am "judaeophobic" as you suggest, as I am not. But in the heat of the moment I said what I did. If you want to think differently carry on. Dont forget there are arabs and christians that also make up the Israeli population.

Ah, you have a masters degree in psychoanalytic theory, do you?
Unless you do, please keep your canting diagnoses to yourself. Thanks.

No I don't but some of your tirades give us an idea of how pathetic you really are.

Wow, I've done it the once, and boy am I embarrassed !
But, taking it in context, it's fuck-all compared to...just how many times have different posters pulled you up on your crap?

Oh I bet your embarrassed this fuck-up was like no other I have seen in a long time and coming from you made this beer taste even better.

The beauty about it was you did it to yourself (and after everything you said to me earlier ) its coz you aint quite the smart arse you make out to be!

 

[diego]

That'd be a bit harsh, banning someone purely for being an arrant fuckwit.

Come again?

 

[Spion]

Oh damn right you are you have no choice after being fucked in such a way!

Quite right I couldn't be bothered, though not because I am "judaeophobic" as you suggest, as I am not. But in the heat of the moment I said what I did. If you want to think differently carry on. Dont forget there are arabs and christians that also make up the Israeli population.

No I don't but some of your tirades give us an idea of how pathetic you really are.

Oh I bet your embarrassed this fuck-up was like no other I have seen in a long time and coming from you made this beer taste even better.

The beauty about it was you did it to yourself (and after everything you said to me earlier ) its coz you aint quite the smart arse you make out to be!

You're dishing out teenage-level abuse to one of the most respected and knowledgable posters on here.

Your card is marked

 

[durruti02]

israel's gone mad.

stark. raving. insane.



do these people live on the same planet as everyone else?

""Nobody in this world understands what are Hamas' goals and why it continues to fire missiles," the president said. "This shooting has no point, no logic, and no chance." "

.. well that is true ... regardless of their aims, which is the destruction of israel and a lot of bollox about the protocols of zion, it is simply idiotic to carry on firing missiles into israel .. tell us frogwomen what is the point of them doing that? what can it acheive? nothing but more attacks .. oh yes and more support for hamas and allah

 

[durruti02]

What means 'picking up fag ends' ?
I have no idea what you are meaning by this.

fair play, it is an english slang expression .. it means to enter into someone elses 'conversation/exchange' hear then take/comment on one piece of it and get the context wrong .. those comments of mine were relevent to that context .. you saw them contextless .. ok

 

[belboid]

""Nobody in this world understands what are Hamas' goals and why it continues to fire missiles," the president said. "This shooting has no point, no logic, and no chance." "

.. well that is true ... regardless of their aims, which is the destruction of israel and a lot of bollox about the protocols of zion, it is simply idiotic to carry on firing missiles into israel .. tell us frogwomen what is the point of them doing that? what can it acheive? nothing but more attacks .. oh yes and more support for hamas and allah

idiotic to defend yourself with your only weapons? Of course they should be able to get weapons that will strike a more useful target, so we should be campaigning for our government to send them decent air fighters, air-to-air missiles etc, as well as raising money ourselves I guess.

 

[durruti02]

Then teach me, O Wise One

at last

well the first rule is if something is not working you try another way .. this must apply to zionism (though for them it is working ok .. though it would not be if US support was withdrawn)

but more so for the palestinian resistance .. with the lack of success with the PLO ( actually the PLO did succeed in sme ways but kind of blew it ) they went the way of all defeated people .. into reaction not revolution .. deeply depressing ( though it is hard to criticise as it is pretty universal) and what is more depressing is that the left here cheerlead them ( as the cheerlead al-sadr and other reactionary scum )

 

[Spion]

"Nobody in this world understands what are Hamas' goals and why it continues to fire missiles," the president said. "This shooting has no point, no logic, and no chance." "

.. well that is true ... regardless of their aims, which is the destruction of israel and a lot of bollox about the protocols of zion, it is simply idiotic to carry on firing missiles into israel .. tell us frogwomen what is the point of them doing that? what can it acheive? nothing but more attacks .. oh yes and more support for hamas and allah

The rockets (and on other occasions the suicide bombs) are a response to being besieged in Gaza, a territory of 1.5m people, and being given no access to the outside world via land, sea or air. The rockets are also a response to Israeli raids and incursions which say - to Israel and to Gazans - "Someone will respond to the death and destructiuon Israel dishes out. There is a cost." It also keeps the issue on the world's news agenda.

You cannot understand the rocket attacks without understanding that the cause of the violence - structural and actual - is Israel's siege and blockade of Gaza.

 

[durruti02]

Thanks for the translation, VP.

He shows no historical understanding as he makes these grand pronouncements.

vp is wrong on what 'picking up fag ends means'

.. and, sorry, but what did i get wrong historically?

 

[Spion]

at last

well the first rule is if something is not working you try another way .. this must apply to zionism (though for them it is working ok .. though it would not be if US support was withdrawn)

but more so for the palestinian resistance .. with the lack of success with the PLO ( actually the PLO did succeed in sme ways but kind of blew it ) they went the way of all defeated people .. into reaction not revolution .. deeply depressing ( though it is hard to criticise as it is pretty universal) and what is more depressing is that the left here cheerlead them ( as the cheerlead al-sadr and other reactionary scum )

That's so vague, I can't really respond to it directly.

For the record, if I was there I'd argue that what are needed is mass demonstrations and marches to the border posts and shame Israel in front of the world's TV cameras to open the gates and let Gazans move freely and gain access to food, trade, jobs, markets and supplies. Hamas will not or cannot contemplete this and they need to be removed - but only by organisations of ordinary Gazans committed to mass action.

On the Isareli side socialists should be arguing for soldiers to disobey orders and not attack Gaza, and for Israeli workers to organise supplies to relieve the suffering there.

But at the same time Gaza has to defend itself militarily and while the rockets are often a relatively inneffective means of doing so, I will not condemn a besieged people for doing anything that can cause the enemy to pay a price for its aggression.

 

[durruti02]

Interesting article in the Independent:

"Johann Hari: The true story behind this war is not the one Israel is telling





So, partly in response to this pressure, Hamas offered Israel a long, long ceasefire and a de facto acceptance of two states, if only Israel would return to its legal borders.[/B]

Rather than seize this opportunity and test Hamas's sincerity, the Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process...

It was in this context – under a collective punishment designed to topple a democracy – that some forces within Gaza did something immoral: they fired Qassam rockets indiscriminately at Israeli cities. These rockets have killed 16 Israeli citizens. This is abhorrent: targeting civilians is always murder. But it is hypocritical for the Israeli government to claim now to speak out for the safety of civilians when it has been terrorising civilians as a matter of state policy.


Before it falls down the memory hole, we should remember that last week, Hamas offered a ceasefire in return for basic and achievable compromises. Don't take my word for it. According to the Israeli press, Yuval Diskin, the current head of the Israeli security service Shin Bet, "told the Israeli cabinet [on 23 December] that Hamas is interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms." Diskin explained that Hamas was requesting two things: an end to the blockade, and an Israeli ceasefire on the West Bank. The cabinet – high with election fever and eager to appear tough – rejected these terms.

The core of the situation has been starkly laid out by Ephraim Halevy, the former head of Mossad. He says that while Hamas militants – like much of the Israeli right-wing – dream of driving their opponents away, "[Hamas militants] have recognised this ideological goal is not attainable and will not be in the foreseeable future." Instead, "they are ready and willing to see the establishment of a Palestinian state in the temporary borders of 1967." They are aware that this means they "will have to adopt a path that could lead them far from their original goals" – and towards a long-term peace based on compromise.

... Halevy explains: "Israel, for reasons of its own, did not want to turn the ceasefire into the start of a diplomatic process with Hamas."

Why would Israel act this way? The Israeli government wants peace, but only one imposed on its own terms, based on the acceptance of defeat by the Palestinians. It means the Israelis can keep the slabs of the West Bank on "their" side of the wall. It means they keep the largest settlements and control the water supply. And it means a divided Palestine, with responsibility for Gaza hived off to Egypt, and the broken-up West Bank standing alone. Negotiations threaten this vision: they would require Israel to give up more than it wants to. But an imposed peace will be no peace at all: it will not stop the rockets or the rage. For real safety, Israel will have to talk to the people it is blockading and bombing today, and compromise with them.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...is-not-the-one-israel-is-telling-1214981.html

i suspecdt this is mainly true .. what is misses out is that most in israel do not trust Hamas .. you are aware of the programme of Hamas? if they say they will compromise, which they have regulalry said ( this is NOT news) many will not believe them as previously they have said they are acting for allah and cannot compromise in front of allah .. the average zionist will think it is a con

in ireland we have a similar ( but differrent) situation .. SF/IRA realise that time is on their side so have stopped the war .. this makes sense ..

i do not see the same for hamas here .. their project ( which they base on relegious belief ) is that the whole of palestine is muslim .. time is NOT on their side demographically in the borders of israel .. so how can they compromise on this? so a compromise could be for two options .. for re arming or the only other option they have is to wait for iran to get the bomb

 

[Spion]

i suspecdt this is mainly true .. what is misses out is that most in israel do not trust Hamas .. you are aware of the basis of Hamas? if they say ther will compromise many will not believe them as previously they have sadi they are acting for allah and can not compromise in from to allah ..the average zionist will think it is a con

in ireland we have a similar ( but differrent) situation .. SF/IRA realise that time is on their side so have stopped the war .. this makes sense ..

i do not see the same for hamas here .. their project is that the whole of palestine is muslim .. time is NOT on their side in the borders of israel .. how can they compromise on this? the only other option they have is to wait for iran to get the bomb

Support for Hamas would evaporate if Israel actually made any concessions to relieve the awful suffering the siege enforces on Gazans. Hamas only have any purchase because they are an extreme solution to an extreme situation.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oh damn right you are you have no choice after being fucked in such a way!

Sorry, you believe you have "fucked" me?
I "fucked" myself, which is why I admitted as much and apologised for it in public.
You, had nothing to do with it.

Quite right I couldn't be bothered, though not because I am "judaeophobic" as you suggest, as I am not.

No, of course you're not, which leaves...well...stupidity, doesn't it?

But in the heat of the moment I said what I did.

Ah, "the heat of the moment". Of course.

If you want to think differently carry on.

I don't need your permission for that, thanks all the same.

Dont forget there are arabs and christians that also make up the Israeli population.

"Arabs" and "Christians", eh? All, what, 8-10% of them, and they're so prominent in your consideration that you only remembered them when it became convenient for you to use as a fig-leaf for your utterances during "the heat of the moment". How thrilling for them.

No I don't but some of your tirades give us an idea of how pathetic you really are.

Funny, that.
I was thinking much the same thing about your gloating.

Oh I bet your embarrassed this fuck-up was like no other I have seen in a long time and coming from you made this beer taste even better.

The beauty about it was you did it to yourself (and after everything you said to me earlier ) its coz you aint quite the smart arse you make out to be!

Tomorrow I shall awake, unembarrassed, because I was happy to hold my hands up and say "I was wrong" and apologise, whereas tomorrow you shall awake and still be the ungracious person who regularly gets "pwned" by just about every poster on Urban.

So gloat away. After all, it's SO rare you get the opportunity, isn't it?

 

[tangentlama]

israel's gone mad.

stark. raving. insane.



do these people live on the same planet as everyone else?

Maybe a deliberate memory loss to prevent himself from becoming stark-raving-insane.
Peres knows why the Gazans fire rockets because he knows that the towns of Ashkelon, Ashdod, and Sderot are built on the ruins of former villages and towns that the Palestinians who survived the ethnic cleansing of 1948 used to live in. He knows who destroyed them, who gave the orders, how many were massacred (males over 12). It's these Palestinians - at least those who survived - who now live with their descendents in Gaza strip. 61 years ago these massacres and ethnic cleansing happened. These are undeniable.

 

[durruti02]

The rockets (and on other occasions the suicide bombs) are a response to being besieged in Gaza, a territory of 1.5m people, and being given no access to the outside world via land, sea or air. The rockets are also a response to Israeli raids and incursions which say - to Israel and to Gazans - "Someone will respond to the death and destructiuon Israel dishes out. There is a cost." It also keeps the issue on the world's news agenda.

You cannot understand the rocket attacks without understanding that the cause of the violence - structural and actual - is Israel's siege and blockade of Gaza.

oh spion mate .. fgs of course i know why people react with violence!!! .. but the question is always ( as i do NOT condemn this violence ) does it work???

and the the answer is an overwhelming NO!!

except, see my reply to frogman, if as i believe hamas are cyncial parasites who use a strategy of tension to manintain their support

but i do understand "the cause of the violence - structural and actual" as it relates to the palestinians .. my point over and over to you is that you do not ask this question of the israeli violence ..

 

[frogwoman]

@ tangentlama - i know, but does he expect that anyone will believe this lying bollocks given that he himself was in charge of many of the military operations that would lead the palestinians to want to fire these rockets in the first place? i read a few days ago that when israel's attack started tzipi livni et al called up the leaders of several countries about the rocket fire and the spanish and italian foreign ministers in particular simply laughed at her

 

[ViolentPanda]

israel's gone mad.

stark. raving. insane.



do these people live on the same planet as everyone else?

No.

On the 5pm news on Radio 4, a member of the Knesset was expounding on how HAMAS and the Gazans celebrate every Palestinian death, what with those victims being "martyrs".
The amount of "T.W.A.T." rhetoric being deployed by the state of Israel to justify wholesale murder is absolutely nauseating.