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Israel in coordinated missile attacks on Gaza

Zachor said:
I don't often agree with or link to Mad Mel as I do find her a bit grating and extreme sometimes and although I don't agree overmuch with the tone of it but I do agree in a significant part with much of what she has said about how the media and other organisations are being biased against Israel bearing in mind that this operation is preceeded by 6000 rockets hitting Israel itself fired from Gaza. It is a text book example of how to put up the argument for the other side when the media is for various reasons (not just jew / Israeli hatred ) but for reasons of for example journalistic laziness.



http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3194846/groundhog-day-for-the-fifth-column-of-malice.thtml
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4-5 minues for a site to load is too long for me.

Could you please post up the parts of the article that you found so interesting?

Ta
 
Short version. "Israel isn't committing so-called war-crimes by bombing the shit out of one of the most densely populated areas on earth and by embargoing food and medical supplies, because those dirty Palestinian savages started it."
 
Here's a linky to the channel 4 report. Click on the watch the report link in the Israel in 'all-out war' with Hamas article. The U.N. guy is Chris Gunness he says there's a 'possible violation of international law'.
 
teqniq said:
The U.N. guy is Chris Gunness he says there's a 'possible violation of international law'.
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Definite;y. Israel is an occupying power. Even targetted assassinations are illegal according to the UN, so full scale bombing definitely is.

Read Finkelstein's Beyond Chutzpah. He goes through every international law violation by Israel in a very thorough way.
 
I was just looking into the population density of the Gaza Strip. Even including the miserable scraps of land the poor sods try to grow food on, the population density is approximately that of Central London. If you take into account only half of it is agricultural land, then it'd be reasonable to assume that the population density of the bits where people live is about double that of Central London.

So here's a little thought experiment. Suppose some future government decided they were going to take a tough line on drugs (which after all, do kill people, probably rather more people than Hamas) by bombing the shit out of all known or suspected drug dealers in Central London. Would that be a 'proportionate response' ... ?
 
Then of course there's the question of the damage being caused by Israel's frequent embargos of food, water, electricity supplies and medicines over the years. I haven't been able to find anything more recent, but events since the study referenced below do not encourage me to believe things have improved.

The survey indicates that Global Acute Malnutrition (GAM) for children aged 6-59 months stands at 13.3% in the Gaza Strip and 4.3% in the West Bank. In a normally nourished population, the figure would be 2.3%. Global Chronic Malnutrition (GCM) for the same age group is 17.5% in the Gaza Strip and 7.9% in the West Bank. These findings are based on a survey of 1,004 households randomly selected in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
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source
 
diego said:
They dont want to upset the Israeli's. I'm sure there's no coincidence that the Bitch Zipi Livni was in Egypt just a day before, probably told Hosni that she'd give him a blowjob if he let Israel attack Gaza and they dont help the Palestinians. After all the Israelis are notorious for using their women as whores to weaken the enemy (thinking of Mossad in particular).
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The result of what you tried to achieve with this post is that you get the opposite of your aim.
What someone serving in the Mossad or any criminal, state supported terrorist organisation (like the CIA) does following instructions, in no way reflects on the entire population of their country. No matter their gender.

The arab govt's are all puppets to the Zionist agenda via the US proxy. They will not do anything against Israel but everything against true muslims in order to keep them away from positions of influence in this region and globally. This is what the West in particular the likes of UK/US are scared of, something like the establishment of a caliphate which would unite the muslims and pose a threat to the Zionist aim of Global domination.
Click to expand...

You have a bit of a distorted view.
The greatest supporters of Radicalism are the Great US Friends, the House of Saud, by means of their little sect with its intolerant deviant views, and which only could rise to power and influence because of Western interference in the region.

A caliphate would not be anything for the West to be scared off, provided it would be founded in Islam like Islam should be.
History shows this was very seldom the case, in fact one could say almost never, since the time of the Prophet's first successors. Even then it shows that things were not as ideal as is often believed they were.
It would take more than an exceptional person to be Caliph of all Muslims right now. Therefore it is in my opinion s impossible as human life on Mars.

salaam.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
Short version. "Israel isn't committing so-called war-crimes by bombing the shit out of one of the most densely populated areas on earth and by embargoing food and medical supplies, because those dirty Palestinian savages started it."
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The same counts for every state that looks on and by its indecent silence approves.

salaam.
 
Statement from Israeli peace group Gush Shalom. Notice that they say that it was Israel, not Hamas who broke the truce:

Bloodshed and suffering on both sides of the border could have been avoided.

It is possible to return immediately to the ceasefire, make it stronger and firmer.

The war in Gaza, the bloodshed, killing, destruction and suffering on both sides of the border are the vicious folly of a bankrupt government. A government which let itself be dragged by adventurous officers and cheap nationalist demagoguery, dragged into a destructive and unnecessary war which will bring no solution to any problem – neither to the communities of southern Israel under the rain of missiles nor to the terrible poverty and suffering of besieged Gaza.

On the day after the war the same problems will remain; with the addition of many bereaved families, wounded people crippled for life, and piles of rubble and destruction.

The escalation towards war could and should have been avoided. It was the State of Israel which broke the truce, in the 'ticking tunnel' raid on the night of the US elections two months ago. Since then the army went on stoking the fires of escalation with calculated raids and killings, whenever the shooting of missiles on Israel decreased.

The cycle of bloodshed could and should be broken. The ceasefire can be restored immediately, and on firmer foundations. It is the right of Israel to demand a complete end to shooting on its territory and citizens – but it must stop all attacks from its side, end completely the siege and starvation of Gaza's million and half inhabitants, and stop interfering with the Palestinians' right to choose their own leaders.

Ehud Barak's declaration that he is stopping the elections campaign in order to concentrate on the Gaza offensive is a joke. The war in Gaza is itself Barak's elections campaign, a cynical attempt to buy votes with the blood and suffering in Netivot and Sderot, Gaza and Beit Hanun. Also so-called peace seekers such as Amos Oz s who give this offensive their support and encouragement could not afterwards shrug off responsibility.
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http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=34273

And what Kevicious said.
 
AnnO'Neemus said:
Russia Today is an English (and others) language Russian state broadcaster.

Xinhua is the Chinese state press agency.

Btw, the BBC is the British state broadcaster.

All propaganda merchants for their masters to varying degrees.
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It says something that Russia and China are portraying an increasingly anti-Israeli viewpoint ...
 
Zachor said:
I couldn't agree more. Despite the corruption (which needs to be dealt with by Fatah with encouragement from outside organisations if necessary) Fatah is one of the few ways that a proper two state solution can be created with a peaceful Palestine alongside a secure Israel. Fatah for all its faults needs to be the long term administrator of Gaza. You can't negotiate with fascists (unless they are on the back foot) and quite frankly that is what Hamas are.


Yes with a state controlled Arab media (or at least a media that is not critical of the governance of Arab states) this is likely to be the outcome. The only way this could be averted would be if Gaza was stabilised and Fatah took over with guidance from external organisations such as the EU to rebuild a functioning civil society.

Sadly yet again the ordinary Palestinian has been caught between a rock and a hard place partially this is of their own making by electing Hamas who are no friend of the ordinary Palestinian.

At least the Israelis are targetting Hamas military assets and not bombing civilian areas indiscriminately like Hamas and their allies are.

All wars have civilian casualties and in an area which is as densely populated as Gaza such casualties are likely to be considerable.
If Hamas cared for the people who elected them they would have concentrated on negotiating for peace, dropping the charter clauses that call for the destruction of Israel and refrained from attacking Israels southern towns. But they have shown that they care not one jot for the ordinary voter in Gaza only for their fascistic ideology.

The primary duty of a state is to protect its citizens and this is what Israel is trying to do.
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Especially when these densely populated areas are bombed from a great height.

The primary duty of a human being is to avoid dismembering innocent children.
 
I happen to post on the Guardian talkboards. it has always attracted a fair few right wing shit bags of US extraction. The sanctimonious carping about the latest violence is sickening (and I try to be dispassionate on I/P issues)

I havent seen such glee since Shock and Awe. times like this bring a lot of racism to the surface. I really dispair at the violent feelings (on both sides) held by people who have zero experience of war.
 
Aldebaran said:
You have a bit of a distorted view.
The greatest supporters of Radicalism are the Great US Friends, the House of Saud, by means of their little sect with its intolerant deviant views, and which only could rise to power and influence because of Western interference in the region.
Click to expand...

No actually the view portrayed to the world is distorted, like you say the "supporters of Radicalism" in the way portrayed by the west mainly US. True muslims do not behave in the same way but this is deliberately distorted to reflect otherwise in order to justify misadventures like the "war on terror". Surely this is something you are aware of.

Aldebaran said:
A caliphate would not be anything for the West to be scared off, provided it would be founded in Islam like Islam should be.
History shows this was very seldom the case, in fact one could say almost never, since the time of the Prophet's first successors. Even then it shows that things were not as ideal as is often believed they were.
It would take more than an exceptional person to be Caliph of all Muslims right now. Therefore it is in my opinion s impossible as human life on Mars.

salaam.
Click to expand...

Indeed a caliphate should be nothing to fear so long as he is a leader according to Islamic rules AND the west would stop interfering in his domain, however this is not possible as that would mean no wars for oil and other natural resources, no stealing of land and killing thousands of inncoents in the name of terror and therefore very little money for the Military Industrial Complex to name just a few, the list of disadvantages for the west is endless in such a scenario.

Sure the post Muhammad era caliphates had there own issues but that does not mean the muslims should not be able to establish one in this day and age after all why is the west so much against this? Like you say it would indeed take an exceptional person but if you ask muslims around the world about such a person you will probably realise that any popular choice would very soon be labeled a terrorist if you know what I mean.

Without going into too much detail about how different religous groups would be able to live in harmony under such a system as they did to an extent in the past (well a heck of a lot better than now) this would not serve the purposes of those opposed to world peace and the disadvantages I listed above!
 
ISRAEL ATTACKS A SHIP WITH HUMANITARIAN AID WITH CITIZENTS ON BOARD

Today, at 5 this morning, the israeli navy attacked the ship "Dignity", that was sailing to Gaza, for one more shipment (the fifth since last August) of the Free Gaza Movement. On board there were about 4 tonns of medicine that were gathered by the cypriot public, as well as doctors and volunteers in order to defend human rights.

The attack took place at international waters, about 90 miles far from the israeli and Gaza waters. "Dignity" was surrounded from 6 israeli war ships who started firing on the sea and the air with real ammunition. One of the israeli ship attacked "Dignity" with its ram bow creating damage to it. Breaching every law of International Law and Sea Law, the israeli blocked "Dignity" from approaching Gaza or to find a safe shelter at Egypr or Lebanon. They demand that the ship must return to Cyprus, nommater the fact that it does not have enough fuel to return and must refill.

Everyone must condemn this attack, this unprovoced piracy. The greek government should react and demand from Israel to stop piracy. We call the greek public and anyone else to demonstrate against the genocity in Gaza. Thankfully, noone from the ones on board got injured. They are 15 citizents from 11 different countries. Their names are:


Denis Healey, Captain (UK)
Nikos Bolos, First Mate, chemical engineer, FGM volunteer (greek)
Othman Abu Falah, Al jazeera producer (Jordan)
Renee Bowyer, FGM volunteer (Australia)
Caoimhe Butterly, FGM volunteer (Irland)
Ekaterini Christodoulou, journalist (cyprus)
Sami El- Haj, journalist of Al jazeera (Sudan)
Dr David Halpin, orthopaedic doctor (UK)
Dr Mohamed Issa, child surgeon (Germany)
Fathi Jaouadi, TV producer, FGM volunteer (UK/Tunise)
Cynthia McKinney, former US Congresswoman from Georgia, and the 2008 Green Party presidential candidate (USA)
Martha Paisi, researcher, activist for human rights (Cyprus)
Karl Penhaul, CNN corespondant (UK)
Thaer Shaker, Al Jazeera camera man (Iraq)
Dr Elena Theoharous, surgeon, member of the Cypriot Parliament (Cyprus)

The only update I have is that the ship managed to get away from the israeli war ships and that is now approaching Lebanon.

You can also read a report here:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/12/2008123071013463603.html

Eddited to add that I also found this from the Free Gaza Movement website

http://www.freegaza.org/index.php?module=latest_news&id=40e777e07fd7eb5b584efa42e09fdee3&offset=
 
Zachor said:
That certainly seems like the case. It does seem that the IAF have fabulous intellegence about Hamas assets and locations. Although there are going to be regrettable casualties amongst civilians accurate intelligence and the avoidance of area bombing will hopefully reduce the number of casualties. According to one news report I read ( I think on Haaretz - will try to find later when less busy) the IDF took over all the mobile phone services in Gaza a short time before the attacks to send texts to warn Gazans to stay away from Hamas buildings and assets. If people have obeyed this instruction then it has probably saved many innocent lives.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

That wasn't to save lives, it's a weaponized tactic. Good PR too, makes it look like they give a fuck. Collateral damage? More like we don't really give a fuck damage.
 
diego said:
No actually the view portrayed to the world is distorted, like you say the "supporters of Radicalism" in the way portrayed by the west mainly US. True muslims do not behave in the same way but this is deliberately distorted to reflect otherwise in order to justify misadventures like the "war on terror". Surely this is something you are aware of.



Indeed a caliphate should be nothing to fear so long as he is a leader according to Islamic rules AND the west would stop interfering in his domain, however this is not possible as that would mean no wars for oil and other natural resources, no stealing of land and killing thousands of inncoents in the name of terror and therefore very little money for the Military Industrial Complex to name just a few, the list of disadvantages for the west is endless in such a scenario.

Sure the post Muhammad era caliphates had there own issues but that does not mean the muslims should not be able to establish one in this day and age after all why is the west so much against this? Like you say it would indeed take an exceptional person but if you ask muslims around the world about such a person you will probably realise that any popular choice would very soon be labeled a terrorist if you know what I mean.

Without going into too much detail about how different religous groups would be able to live in harmony under such a system as they did to an extent in the past (well a heck of a lot better than now) this would not serve the purposes of those opposed to world peace and the disadvantages I listed above!
Click to expand...

I've not read any of your posts before, but I can't sy I'm impressed is this is the sort of faire on offer.
 
Dimitris said:
ISRAEL ATTACKS A SHIP WITH HUMANITARIAN AID WITH CITIZENTS ON BOARD

Today, at 5 this morning, the israeli navy attacked the ship "Dignity", that was sailing to Gaza, for one more shipment (the fifth since last August) of the Free Gaza Movement. On board there were about 4 tonns of medicine that were gathered by the cypriot public, as well as doctors and volunteers in order to defend human rights.

The attack took place at international waters, about 90 miles far from the israeli and Gaza waters. "Dignity" was surrounded from 6 israeli war ships who started firing on the sea and the air with real ammunition. One of the israeli ship attacked "Dignity" with its ram bow creating damage to it. Breaching every law of International Law and Sea Law, the israeli blocked "Dignity" from approaching Gaza or to find a safe shelter at Egypr or Lebanon. They demand that the ship must return to Cyprus, nommater the fact that it does not have enough fuel to return and must refill.

Everyone must condemn this attack, this unprovoced piracy. The greek government should react and demand from Israel to stop piracy. We call the greek public and anyone else to demonstrate against the genocity in Gaza. Thankfully, noone from the ones on board got injured. They are 15 citizents from 11 different countries. Their names are:


Denis Healey, Captain (UK)
Nikos Bolos, First Mate, chemical engineer, FGM volunteer (greek)
Othman Abu Falah, Al jazeera producer (Jordan)
Renee Bowyer, FGM volunteer (Australia)
Caoimhe Butterly, FGM volunteer (Irland)
Ekaterini Christodoulou, journalist (cyprus)
Sami El- Haj, journalist of Al jazeera (Sudan)
Dr David Halpin, orthopaedic doctor (UK)
Dr Mohamed Issa, child surgeon (Germany)
Fathi Jaouadi, TV producer, FGM volunteer (UK/Tunise)
Cynthia McKinney, former US Congresswoman from Georgia, and the 2008 Green Party presidential candidate (USA)
Martha Paisi, researcher, activist for human rights (Cyprus)
Karl Penhaul, CNN corespondant (UK)
Thaer Shaker, Al Jazeera camera man (Iraq)
Dr Elena Theoharous, surgeon, member of the Cypriot Parliament (Cyprus)

The only update I have is that the ship managed to get away from the israeli war ships and that is now approaching Lebanon.

You can also read a report here:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/12/2008123071013463603.html

Eddited to add that I also found this from the Free Gaza Movement website

http://www.freegaza.org/index.php?module=latest_news&id=40e777e07fd7eb5b584efa42e09fdee3&offset=
Click to expand...

Very sad indeed. But when will these criminals be punished for these atrocious acts?
 
November said:
:rolleyes:

That wasn't to save lives, it's a weaponized tactic. Good PR too, makes it look like they give a fuck. Collateral damage? More like we don't really give a fuck damage.
Click to expand...

It's bullshit anyway. Gaza Strip has one of the highest population densities in the world. In the built up areas you're talking about something in excess of the population density of central London. Now imagine Israeli F16s raining bombs down on central London, how much is that gesture worth in avoiding casualties? Fuck all. It's just something for the PR mouthpieces to tell reporters to make it look like they give a shit about war crimes.
 
diego said:
Sure you are entitled to your opinion, but I can I ask what it is you dont like in particluar about this post?
Click to expand...

Islam is not a kind religion, and like the others it's not averse to exploiting the hardships suffered by populations to promote itself and its agenda (usually supreme dominion over all mankind). But I don't want to threadjack this important thread.

Surfice to say I am against conflating the situation of the Palestinian people with the interests of Islam (or any religion), as I am against conflating jewish people with the behaviour of what is effectively a colonialist apartheid state.
 
November said:
Islam is not a kind religion, and like the others it's not averse to exploiting the hardships suffered by populations to promote itself and its agenda (usually supreme dominion over all mankind). But I don't want to threadjack this important thread.

Surfice to say I am against conflating the situation of the Palestinian people with the interests of Islam (or any religion), as I am against conflating jewish people with the behaviour of what is effectively a colonialist apartheid state.
Click to expand...

Ok, so as I suspected your problem lies with the religion of Islam itself.
 
TAE said:
What are the laws concerning international waters?
Click to expand...

Well like some of the reports you posted say Israel has broken International maritime laws, however there not the only laws Israel repeatedly ignores so why would they give a shit about this one, especially when by breaking it they can contribute to the suffering of the people of Gaza!
 
diego said:
Oh I'm Anti-zionist alright, but certainly not anti-semite, as techinically that would mean I am also anti-arab, but dicks like you obviously don't know that.
Click to expand...
This is one of the things I love about Urban; that it gives cocksure cretins like yourself enough room to hang themselves by their own idiot necks.
Take a look back at the original post which you referred to when asking me if I suffered from Tourettes.
Was I replying to a post by you? No.
Therefore, was my reply to that post mentioning anti-Semitism addressed to you? No it wasn't.
So, while you're right that I don't know what you are (besides an ignorant cretin, anyway), given that i wasn't referring to you in the first place, your bibblings and moanings aren't germane.
And thanks for confirming you suffer from tourettes it was really pretty obvious coz thats all you can come up with when you are pissed off at other people's opinion's and accuse them of being anti-jew.
Click to expand...
And yet, if you chose to read through my posting history on the subject, you'd find that it isn't all I do, it's something I actually do very rarely, and never without cause.

Don't let that stop you making ignorant and ill-informed assumptions, though. It's very entertaining watching you shoot yourself in the foot.

Over and over and over again.
 
ViolentPanda said:
Take a look back at the original post which you referred to when asking me if I suffered from Tourettes.
Was I replying to a post by you? No.
Therefore, was my reply to that post mentioning anti-Semitism addressed to you? No it wasn't.

So, while you're right that I don't know what you are (besides an ignorant cretin, anyway), given that i wasn't referring to you in the first place, your bibblings and moanings aren't germane.
Click to expand...

What can I say you really are a wanker. Perhaps you want to go back and look through the posts.
And I'm the ignorant cretin :hmm:

ViolentPanda said:
And yet, if you chose to read through my posting history on the subject, you'd find that it isn't all I do, it's something I actually do very rarely, and never without cause.
Click to expand...

Never mind the subject, your posting history in general shows that some of your responses display classic symptoms of a deranged idiot who thinks everyone else is stupid, your reactions full of any bit of garbage that comes to your deranged mind. Perhaps you have mental issues as well.

ViolentPanda said:
Don't let that stop you making ignorant and ill-informed assumptions, though. It's very entertaining watching you shoot yourself in the foot.

Over and over and over again.
Click to expand...

What was that you just said?

:)
 
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