*IRAQ: latest news and developments
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If Saddam does have Sarin there is a 99% chance it is harmless by now anyway. His capability to manufacture it was destroyed by Scott Ritter and his team before 1998 and there is no way he will have been able to re-start the programme because it would require him to obtain bits of machinery and so on that are not available on the open market, banned under sanctions and he would have been detected trying to obtain them. He could have hidden some from the inspectors, of course, but it has a shelf life of five years and would be useless by now.
It is cehmically very close to a pesticide, though - hence yesterday's "find" of sarin.
It is cehmically very close to a pesticide, though - hence yesterday's "find" of sarin.
joe dick
hardly any animals were abused or killed
US tank shell hits media hotel
The Palestine hotel, the building where much of the foreign media in Baghdad is based, then came under tank fire and the balconyon the 14th floor was hit.
David Chater of Sky News, who was in the hotel, said he saw a tank barrel aiming in his direction just before the blast hit.
"A lot of us feel very vulnerable now. How can we continue doing this if US tanks are targeting western journalists," he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,932173,00.html
The Palestine hotel, the building where much of the foreign media in Baghdad is based, then came under tank fire and the balconyon the 14th floor was hit.
David Chater of Sky News, who was in the hotel, said he saw a tank barrel aiming in his direction just before the blast hit.
"A lot of us feel very vulnerable now. How can we continue doing this if US tanks are targeting western journalists," he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,932173,00.html
joe dick
hardly any animals were abused or killed
U.S. plane goes down in Iraq, pilot safe - Centcom
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...&e=10&u=/nm/20030408/wl_india_nm/india_111279
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...&e=10&u=/nm/20030408/wl_india_nm/india_111279
Bajie
Registered User
Baghdad's hospitals overwhelmed with casualties.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2927849.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2927849.stm
CIA death squads operating in Iraq
Revealing cover-up at Pentagon briefing
'At an April 4 Pentagon media briefing, Army Major General Stanley McChrystal boasted that the contribution of special forces to the US operation had been “unprecedented.” Another senior official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said more than 10,000 special operations troops were involved in Iraq—the largest number for any US war since Vietnam.
'There was a revealing exchange when a journalist asked the following question:
“Can you help us to understand one of the points—one of the arguments made by the administration on the ‘war criminals’ tag? Obviously, the administration has seen a number of irregular practices on the part of the Iraqis. One of them in particular puzzles me. When they take off their uniforms and fight in civilian clothes, why is that a war crime? Because US Special Forces do it and did it in Afghanistan—they didn’t behave in the same way, but why is the act of fighting without a uniform considered a war crime?”
'McChrystal could not answer the question, becoming flummoxed as he tried unsuccessfully to draw a distinction between the tasks being performed by US personnel and Iraqi civilians. Victoria Clarke, spokeswoman for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, quickly stepped in to shut down the line of questioning.
“I’d actually like to take that question, because I don’t think you’re right about that,” she told the journalist. After a pause, Clarke said the Pentagon would respond later.
'Another journalist asked if US forces were under any “special instructions” if they found Saddam Hussein or other senior Iraqi leader. Clarke immediately told McChrystal, “You don’t need to answer his question.”
'After the press conference, officials said US special forces in Iraq “are wearing uniforms,” but declined to say if they were full uniforms or modified. Clarke’s abrupt intervention at the briefing suggests acute awareness in the administration that its officials and military commanders are the ones committing war crimes in Iraq.
'The methods being used in Iraq will soon become as notorious as the CIA-backed coup in Iran in 1953 to install the cruel regime of the Shah, the “Operation Phoenix” killing program in Vietnam, and the 1973 overthrow of the Allende government in Chile, to name but a few of US imperialism’s crimes.'
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/cia-a08.shtml
Revealing cover-up at Pentagon briefing
'At an April 4 Pentagon media briefing, Army Major General Stanley McChrystal boasted that the contribution of special forces to the US operation had been “unprecedented.” Another senior official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said more than 10,000 special operations troops were involved in Iraq—the largest number for any US war since Vietnam.
'There was a revealing exchange when a journalist asked the following question:
“Can you help us to understand one of the points—one of the arguments made by the administration on the ‘war criminals’ tag? Obviously, the administration has seen a number of irregular practices on the part of the Iraqis. One of them in particular puzzles me. When they take off their uniforms and fight in civilian clothes, why is that a war crime? Because US Special Forces do it and did it in Afghanistan—they didn’t behave in the same way, but why is the act of fighting without a uniform considered a war crime?”
'McChrystal could not answer the question, becoming flummoxed as he tried unsuccessfully to draw a distinction between the tasks being performed by US personnel and Iraqi civilians. Victoria Clarke, spokeswoman for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, quickly stepped in to shut down the line of questioning.
“I’d actually like to take that question, because I don’t think you’re right about that,” she told the journalist. After a pause, Clarke said the Pentagon would respond later.
'Another journalist asked if US forces were under any “special instructions” if they found Saddam Hussein or other senior Iraqi leader. Clarke immediately told McChrystal, “You don’t need to answer his question.”
'After the press conference, officials said US special forces in Iraq “are wearing uniforms,” but declined to say if they were full uniforms or modified. Clarke’s abrupt intervention at the briefing suggests acute awareness in the administration that its officials and military commanders are the ones committing war crimes in Iraq.
'The methods being used in Iraq will soon become as notorious as the CIA-backed coup in Iran in 1953 to install the cruel regime of the Shah, the “Operation Phoenix” killing program in Vietnam, and the 1973 overthrow of the Allende government in Chile, to name but a few of US imperialism’s crimes.'
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/cia-a08.shtml
Nice post bigfish.
What happens with the SAS/SBS is that they wear the uniforms with the insignia of their original regiments on when they go into combat.
If the same is true of Delta force, it might make sense for Clarke to try not to reveal it, as it might lead to US troops receiving more hostile treatment from captors than they might otherwise receive.
Although having said that, it's bloody obvious that special services must wear civvy clothes for extended periods of time. Otherwise how the hell have they been in Basra for the past 3 months, as we have been led to believe by the MoD.
What happens with the SAS/SBS is that they wear the uniforms with the insignia of their original regiments on when they go into combat.
If the same is true of Delta force, it might make sense for Clarke to try not to reveal it, as it might lead to US troops receiving more hostile treatment from captors than they might otherwise receive.
Although having said that, it's bloody obvious that special services must wear civvy clothes for extended periods of time. Otherwise how the hell have they been in Basra for the past 3 months, as we have been led to believe by the MoD.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Al jazera office in baghdad hit by missile. 1 killed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2927527.stm
its an accident of course.
nothing to do with the fierce criticism of the channel by the USuk for not being pro coalition enough for their tastes.
The al jazera office in Kabul was also 'accidently' destroyed during the afghan war.
In that case the staff were tipped off that such an 'accident' was about to occur and managed to evacuate the building.
edited to add -
supriosingly the bbc website report does seem to imply this was deliberate.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2927527.stm
its an accident of course.
nothing to do with the fierce criticism of the channel by the USuk for not being pro coalition enough for their tastes.
The al jazera office in Kabul was also 'accidently' destroyed during the afghan war.
In that case the staff were tipped off that such an 'accident' was about to occur and managed to evacuate the building.
edited to add -
supriosingly the bbc website report does seem to imply this was deliberate.
Zenskar, that last statement of yours has left me a little confused. In time of war I thought it was legal for combatants not in military uniform behind the lines to be shot as spies. Is this not the case?
If so we must have broken the Geneva convention hundreds of times during the second world war and not tried to excuse our actions.
If so we must have broken the Geneva convention hundreds of times during the second world war and not tried to excuse our actions.
I'm just waiting for them to hit the Chinese Embassy..
Radio 4 pm...A US officer declares" We've told journalists that they put themselves an a great deal of danger reporting outside of the coalition embedded"..
Obviously not from the Iraqi forces..
Open season on honest reporting?
Cheers for that Zenskar, you actually inspired me to read the thing.
It reads as though Iraqis wearing ordinary clothes would qualify to be treated as POWs, whereas special forces wearing the same might not.
From Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, 75 U.N.T.S. 135, entered into force Oct. 21, 1950.
Part 1, Article 4
This appears to me to make it clear that there are circumstances in which combatants are not affored POW status, or protection by the Geneva Convention.
Link
It reads as though Iraqis wearing ordinary clothes would qualify to be treated as POWs, whereas special forces wearing the same might not.
From Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, 75 U.N.T.S. 135, entered into force Oct. 21, 1950.
Part 1, Article 4
This appears to me to make it clear that there are circumstances in which combatants are not affored POW status, or protection by the Geneva Convention.
Link
It depends where they're operating JohnX. My girlfriend's making a four part documentary about the SAS, and as a result I've heard more about them than I care to know.
In the field they generally wear the uniform of their original regiment, or uniform which is obviously military while not displaying insignia.
In undercover work, as in Basra, it would be naive to think that they do not occasionally 'slot' (as they put it) people who are about to blow their cover, or that they pop upstairs to change into uniform before they do it.
In the field they generally wear the uniform of their original regiment, or uniform which is obviously military while not displaying insignia.
In undercover work, as in Basra, it would be naive to think that they do not occasionally 'slot' (as they put it) people who are about to blow their cover, or that they pop upstairs to change into uniform before they do it.
DJ Squelch
King Of Insides
A new audio tape which claims to be of Osama Bin Laden has surfaced. The tape concentrated mostly on jihad, condemning Muslim governments who have supported the U.S.-led coalition's war on Iraq and the global war that has targeted bin Laden. In the audio tape, bin Laden's supposed voice urges the faithful to attack the governments of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bahrain, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. Unlike previous such tapes, this one had a single theme - suicide attacks.
ABC
ABC
Wizard, imagine the situation.
You are a special forces operative in Baghdad a month before the war started.
You are in your usual four man team.
You're being put up by a friendly and identifying potential target sites for allied bombing raids if a war kicks off.
A friend of the family who happens to be a Ba'ath party official discovers what's going on and moves to go and get the local heavies/ring the police.
Do you
a) Get changed into a uniform you don't have with you for very good reasons;
b) Take him hostage, leaving yourself with a potential ongoing threat; or
c) Slot him before he can tell anyone?
They might not set out to kill while dressed as civilians, but it does happen.
Read General Sir Peter de la Billiére's autobiography if you don't believe me. There are accounts of it happening in there. And he was trying to make special forces look good.
And don't imagine Delta Force is any different. They might operate in larger patrols, but they were set up with the aforementioned General's help and advice.
PS
For the record I'm in favour of the war, and I have no problem with special forces doing what they do. I do believe howerver that we shouldn't resort to specious demonisation of the enemy to justify our actions.
You are a special forces operative in Baghdad a month before the war started.
You are in your usual four man team.
You're being put up by a friendly and identifying potential target sites for allied bombing raids if a war kicks off.
A friend of the family who happens to be a Ba'ath party official discovers what's going on and moves to go and get the local heavies/ring the police.
Do you
a) Get changed into a uniform you don't have with you for very good reasons;
b) Take him hostage, leaving yourself with a potential ongoing threat; or
c) Slot him before he can tell anyone?
They might not set out to kill while dressed as civilians, but it does happen.
Read General Sir Peter de la Billiére's autobiography if you don't believe me. There are accounts of it happening in there. And he was trying to make special forces look good.
And don't imagine Delta Force is any different. They might operate in larger patrols, but they were set up with the aforementioned General's help and advice.
PS
For the record I'm in favour of the war, and I have no problem with special forces doing what they do. I do believe howerver that we shouldn't resort to specious demonisation of the enemy to justify our actions.
I believe that someone, in the far and distant past, accused me of adding too much comment to this thread.
In fact vimto even went so far as to call me a troll. Some idiots then agreed with him.
Who should I now call a troll?
In fact vimto even went so far as to call me a troll. Some idiots then agreed with him.
Who should I now call a troll?
It's taken a long time for anyone to take the bait.
And then along comes a big fish.
You simply wouldn't believe it if it didn't happen.
C'mon, chill out a bit peeps
Meanwhile here's this article about "Irregular Weapons Used Against Iraq" from the Global Policy Forum, detailing use of depleted uranium (DU) shells, bunker busters (which also have DU) and cluster bombs - all of which have been used in or near civilian areas.
Meanwhile here's this article about "Irregular Weapons Used Against Iraq" from the Global Policy Forum, detailing use of depleted uranium (DU) shells, bunker busters (which also have DU) and cluster bombs - all of which have been used in or near civilian areas.
Bajie
Registered User
Unexploded munitions still causing injury and death in Najaf..
http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=24936
http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=24936
john x
Well-Known Member
I did check out your quote. When I used the word operate I used it in it's military sense. This means everything they are likely to do while they are operational. This includes both killing the enemy or even civilians if it prevents them being compromised while operating covertly.
john x
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