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In the pub tonight most people said they favoured Nicola Sturgeon. What a pity this is S E UK..

Thing was, prior to 2014 it wasn't that anti-austerity rhetoric they were relying on to gain mass support - it was fiscal responsibility, balancing the book,small businesses and the possibilities that globally mobile capital offered to scottish based bosses. So whilst they may have to reply on anti-austerity presentation those with longer standing ownership of the party haven't entirely abandoned it - they and their interests are still there.

As for the other suggestion,of them taking english seats - fantasy stuff. Not a hope in hell in any seat at all.
Yeah, but prior to, and in the campaign for, the IndyRef they had another substantive agenda that subsumed ideology and factionalism. Once defeated on that they've been compelled to adopt the anti-austerity position to maintain the 45...and it's worked.
 
This is the politics of personality. An unfortunate human trate is finding some people attractive & others unattractive & judging them just on that. Nicola Sturgeon comes across as articulate & engaging. Ed Milliband by accident of birth has a slight facial deformity that affects his speech slightly. It makes him come across as slightly odd & weird, we might call it 'geeky' for want of a better word. None of this should affect the person. We live in a democracy anyway, no one person has all the power. Look at Obama, articulate, good looking, engaging, some people regarded him almost as a messiah, but the US president is not a dictator, in the end it matters not what he looks likes or how well he talks the talk, & so it is with UK politics.

I think you have it - sort of.

Oddly, Milliband's geekiness (or however we might describe it) seems to be paying back. Cameron has always had the "statesman" vote, separate from party polls. But it now looks like *slick* doesn't cut it as much as we thought. Ed keeps, earnestly, arguing, and weirdly the core are holding with it, if not properly winning swing votes.

Sturgeon: "articulate & engaging" is what old school labour voters would die for. If I was in Scotland, I'd be there with bells on.
 
All of which reminds me that we haven't yet had the traditional argument over this interpretation...

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:D
 
Its th
I don't think thats the reason. NS is warm & friendly, thats why she is liked. EM comes over as weird & strange, thats why he is disliked. We were all taken in by 'I'm yer mate' Blair because he talked the talk. Everybody expected Obama to achieve the impossible because he seemed almost like a messiah at the dawn of a new age. But really its just about whether we find somebody attractive or repellant.

Some politicians are inarticulate, Ed Balls, some are too aritculate & they come over as just too slick & clever, Chuka Umanna, others like Nicola Sturgeon get it just right.

You always say this. By "we" you mean "you" yes? It's patronising pish.

FWIW I'm another one who couldn't given a fuck what any of them look or sound like.

Just caught something on radio, Farage is going to complain to someone (BBC, Electoral Commission?) about last week's "left wing" audience.
:facepalm:
 
In the SNP Manifesto , they reach out to the North of England, specifically Labour M.p's, saying they could work with Newcastle, Leeds, etc to better the region, and shift the centre of gravity from the South.

Could one ever see secession of some parts of the North if we have constant neo-liberal parties in power.
 
In the SNP Manifesto , they reach out to the North of England, specifically Labour M.p's, saying they could work with Newcastle, Leeds, etc to better the region, and shift the centre of gravity from the South.

Could one ever see secession of some parts of the North if we have constant neo-liberal parties in power.

Some sort of, I dunno, Northern League perhaps? ;)
 
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You always say this. By "we" you mean "you" yes? It's patronising pish.
By "we" I mean the random people I speak to around where I live who "like" Nicola Sturgeon, invariably they like her as a person for the persona she presents just as they dislike Milliband for the persona he presents. They have no idea of the policies they present. The op struck a chord with me because when I try to talk to people around me about politics, their comments are usually, "I like x, I don't like y but they are all as bad as each other. At risk of being cliche politics should be about policy not the cult of personality.
 
By "we" I mean the random people I speak to around where I live who "like" Nicola Sturgeon, invariably they like her as a person for the persona she presents just as they dislike Milliband for the persona he presents. They have no idea of the policies they present. The op struck a chord with me because when I try to talk to people around me about politics, their comments are usually, "I like x, I don't like y but they are all as bad as each other. At risk of being cliche politics should be about policy not the cult of personality.
I think that you assume that the people around you are ignorant of the austerity policy issue. I don't mind that Ed Milliband has a minor speech impediment but I hate his "me too" austerity policy which is a continuation of Blair's approach. Nicola Sturgeon does not have a particularly appealing personality but she is vehemently anti-austerity. It is policy not personality in these cases.
 
They're not a socialist party though- they're a classic pro-capital bourgeois nationalist party with long standing ties to small/medium capitalist interests. There are socialist members - but there are also members whose politics are far to the right of even today's labour party. The billions of cuts they've done since 2010 - socialists cuts? Nationalist cuts?
Dennis Canavan disagrees
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...-calls-for-snp-vote-across-scotland-1-3747076
 
By "we" I mean the random people I speak to around where I live who "like" Nicola Sturgeon, invariably they like her as a person for the persona she presents just as they dislike Milliband for the persona he presents. They have no idea of the policies they present. The op struck a chord with me because when I try to talk to people around me about politics, their comments are usually, "I like x, I don't like y but they are all as bad as each other. At risk of being cliche politics should be about policy not the cult of personality.

Maybe you're asking the wrong questions. I don't move in especially politically safisticated nerdie circles but the people I generally talk to about politics, if I do, have a broad idea about where parties are coming from. It's not because Milliband sounds funny that they at best, distrust Labour.
 
I think that you assume that the people around you are ignorant of the austerity policy issue. I don't mind that Ed Milliband has a minor speech impediment but I hate his "me too" austerity policy which is a continuation of Blair's approach. Nicola Sturgeon does not have a particularly appealing personality but she is vehemently anti-austerity. It is policy not personality in these cases.
Where I live the MP is UKIP voted in by former Tory voters. Those around me like the way NS stands up for Scotland in the same way they like Farage standing up for England as they see it. They are racists, for them its all about immigration, too many foreigners, leave the EU & so on. When I point out that NS is not actually standing for election in the GE some are quite suprised & this was pointed out on Radio4 recently, plenty are not really aware that NS is actually an MSP. Since Alex Salmond, himself a good public speaker moved aside for NS after the referendum was lost, NS is the face of the SNP & she is leader but if plenty of SNP MPs including Aex Salmond are returned to Westminster, then it is he again who will be presumably doing most of the talking? No wonder those who don't follow politics that closely are confused?
 
God help us all if the SNP holds the balance of power in Westminster. You can forget re-regulation of transport for a start, Gloag and Souter have given the SNP in excess of a million pounds.

However, I suspect, just as in the referendum, a lot of people are saying little, but will vote in whichever way it takes to block the SNP. They lost the referendum by a substantial margin, and should now lose, rather than gain Westminster seats. Even Salmond's election is not a given.
 
God help us all if the SNP holds the balance of power in Westminster. You can forget re-regulation of transport for a start, Gloag and Souter have given the SNP in excess of a million pounds.

However, I suspect, just as in the referendum, a lot of people are saying little, but will vote in whichever way it takes to block the SNP. They lost the referendum by a substantial margin, and should now lose, rather than gain Westminster seats. Even Salmond's election is not a given.
Thanks for that Sas, I didn't know about the Souter donation. To think that I have travelled on his buses and enlarged his wealth by even a few shillings, annoys me.
 
My mum's local SNP candidate is an estate agent specialising in selling council properties to BTL landlords apparently. They're certainly not a socialist party but we might end up slightly better off with them in a government so while I'm spoiling my vote in a Tory safe seat I'm actually hoping for a Labour-SNP coalition. Would certainly be more pleasant than a Tory-UKIP one.

Despite Sturgeon stating yesterday that due to the fixed term parliament, the SNP will hold the country to ransom by vetoing anything they don't like, but not forcing a vote of confidence. I suggest that you be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
 
Despite Sturgeon stating yesterday that due to the fixed term parliament, the SNP will hold the country to ransom by vetoing anything they don't like, but not forcing a vote of confidence. I suggest that you be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
"...hold the country to ransom..."?
:D

I suppose the other UK MPs voting for things that you agree with, (and against those that you don't), are exercising their legitimate parliamentary mandate?

Laughable.
 
However, I suspect, just as in the referendum, a lot of people are saying little, but will vote in whichever way it takes to block the SNP. They lost the referendum by a substantial margin, and should now lose, rather than gain Westminster seats. Even Salmond's election is not a given.
Obvious nonsense and completely contrary to how FPTP tends to work
 
...the SNP...lost the referendum by a substantial margin, and should now lose, rather than gain Westminster seats. Even Salmond's election is not a given.
SNP had 6 seats in the last Parliament - polling suggests they may be on course for 30,40 or even 50 seats. One of the recent Ashcroft polls even suggested the SNP could win all 59 seats in Scotland.
 
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However, I suspect, just as in the referendum, a lot of people are saying little, but will vote in whichever way it takes to block the SNP. They lost the referendum by a substantial margin, and should now lose, rather than gain Westminster seats. Even Salmond's election is not a given.

You are totally delusional, you must be the only tory left in Scotland
 
Yeah, but prior to, and in the campaign for, the IndyRef they had another substantive agenda that subsumed ideology and factionalism. Once defeated on that they've been compelled to adopt the anti-austerity position to maintain the 45...and it's worked.
this is correct.

Sturgeon herself always seemed more comfortable as an old Labour sort of socialist. Butchers rightly says there is a range of opinion amongst individuals in the SNP, but its policy base has been firmly social democratic since the days of Billy Wolfe in the 70s. Any to the right of that centre-left centre of gravity (and there aren't many in positions of prominence: Fergus Ewing and Mike Russell are about it) have kept quiet because they understand that tactically, the party can't be right wing and win the Labour heartlands they've always envied. And until devolution, that was the only way they'd be able to bring about independence.

The SNP has long been to the left of Labour. That isn't hard by the way. And still doesn't make them a socialist party.

Sturgeon as well as being personally inclined further left of Salmond, must have been mindful that the huge number of activists they've ingested since the referendum are largely a) politically naive (a good thing) and b) well to the left of the SNP's former centre of gravity. The new membership dwarfs the old membership. Last figure I saw was total membership in excess of 105,000. Before 18th sept it was 25, 500. This new membership wants stuff done.

One of the first things Sturgeon did was drop policies associated with Salmond - the corporation tax cut for an independent Scotland, for example. (It was amusing to see Darling attack the old policy, btw: Labour cut corporation tax on 3 occasions when last in power).

There are of course many neoliberal turns the SNP has taken while in government in Holyrood, though. For example they came to power deriding the former Labour/Lib Dem administration's PPP policies (a version of PFI), but their alternative, the Scottish Futures Trust, didn't seem to any clear thinking person very much different.

They have also have a tendency towards heavy centralisation and moralistic authoritarianism. (Kenny McAskill was the worst in this respect).

But that isn't really the point. The 80,000 new members didn't read the party's policy wallet before joining (really, they didn't, just look at their posts on social media), and nor are non members voting SNP doing so for their policy portfolio. I know Green Party members and SSP members who intend to vote SNP knowing full well that they disagree with many of their policies.
 
...

As for the other suggestion,of them taking english seats - fantasy stuff. Not a hope in hell in any seat at all.

Well, of course. It is hardly a clever or insightful suggestion on your part to announce that the S.N,P. would not take English seats.
 
this is correct.

...
But that isn't really the point. The 80,000 new members didn't read the party's policy wallet before joining (really, they didn't, just look at their posts on social media), and nor are non members voting SNP doing so for their policy portfolio. I know Green Party members and SSP members who intend to vote SNP knowing full well that they disagree with many of their policies.

But all of those new S.N.P. members can have a good go at changing policies. :)
 
The rest of the country should just devolve from London and the home counties, and leave the neoliberal westminster elite to it.
 
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