Spion
I hear ya
No one has, Froggy. And I've clearly stated that the strikers have to be engaged with. But that doesn't mean I'll support a strike that has reactionary employment practices as a key aim.
Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...
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TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Sorry, but you're not making sense because he never said 'racism' and quite a few people discussed the connotations and origins here on this thread very openly and without any malice at all.
I think you've misunderstood what he was saying based on that news clip which featured "Kenny", which I'm thinking was Kenny the Unite Steward. If I remember rightly, that was the person that Spion quoted earlier.
I think you and dennisr and Spion have had a misunderstanding and my belief is that you're all wanting the same thing. Just a misunderstanding. Read back and I'm sure it will clear itself up.
You're on the same side, not the opposite side
dennisr
the acceptable face
But then you were never going to do the ABCs of 'engaging with them' anyway were you? (even if we ignore somewhat dubious approach you were planning to take to - theoretically - engage them)
Come on you keep shouting 'dishonest'
The reality is active working class socialists did 'engage' those strikers - you simply condemned both the strikers and those trying to 'engage' them from the start
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
No, not racism! Possibly an insular way of looking at the situation, for which I would blame
a) the Govt, esp. Prime Minister Brown and his recycled fash-slogan from the NF (BJFBW)
b) Union 'Tops' for, since they're paid dues to look at the bigger picture and inform the rank and file what's going on in the wider world and make solidarity with other unions across Europe, nay, the World, for globalisation has been around for over 100 years.
We've got to look at it from the bottom-up, i.e. from our position as workers.
We've got to consider that it's only very recently that information about the world has been available to access to all.
Cars increased mobility and contact with other workers around the country.
Internet increases the amount of info available to us.
Before cars/internet and airtravel, information would be filtered from the top-down to workers, and workers would only be told what the Union leaders/bosses wanted them to know!.
Today, we're all better informed (thankfully) so we know when construction workers are striking in India, France, Germany, S.A., Brazil, etc and we know why they're striking!
We can find out which unions are involved in contract/agency disputes and work together. Couldn't do that very easily 30 or 40 years ago!
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
eh? are we reading the same thread?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
sadly, we're not.You're on the same side, not the opposite side
He opposes the strike, explicitly, and I support it, explicitly.
he thinks its a 'little englander' strike, I dont.
Kinda different, really.
dennisr
the acceptable face
I think you and dennisr and Spion have had a misunderstanding and my belief is that you're all wanting the same thing. Just a misunderstanding. Read back and I'm sure it will clear itself up.
You're on the same side, not the opposite side
I honestly cant see it as just a misunderstanding, tangent - there is a key difference behind the disagreements going on here. Yes, formally, we all want a united working class fighting to improve the position of each other and all workers. We are all opposed to racist, zenophobic and all forms of division between people. We can all see the dangers on some of the backward slogans being initially raised. We all formally share a lot of basic 'ideas and theories' in common - where we differ completely is how to apply them.
How we think a solution to those divisions (and a cutting across of backward demands) can be achieved - engaging that group of people in a way that makes those theories relevant - that point is where we take entirely different roads. That is the point were we have nowt in common.
audiotech
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You must have been on some hallucinogenic substance to infer what you have inferred from my posting of an image of a Sooty glove puppet belboid.
ffs,
it was my last post of the night. Never seen Sooty? He alway's signed off with "tatty bye everybody, tatty bye." 
dennisr
the acceptable face
Spions position was clear enough - he said he opposed the strike. If the socialists on the ground had arrived with a similar view they would have no hope whatsoever of being able to cut across the very elements of this movement he opposes.
In practice - regardless of platitudes about 'engaging' - he put himself on the other side of the line and cut himself off from the very thing he wanted to engage (engage in theory that is...)
yep, i think we are reading the same thread
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
naah, just going of yours and your comrades' repetition of the bosses arguments. That was before you'd read the new Socialist Worker of course, whereupon your views suddenly changed!
ffs,
I bow to your knowledge of old children's tv programmes. I always thought Sooty was shit meself.
audiotech
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
You might want to check this post. before you come out with anymore idiocy?
written after this weeks SW came out
audiotech
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written after this weeks SW came out
But I'm supporting the strikers and they're humming and harring about it.
And "Izzy wizzy, let's get busy!" is not the headline either.
snadge
metal alchemist
audiotech
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Personally, I think Spions over thinking it on the issue of nationalism and it's influence here, but I concur with his comments about the BjfBw slogan.
I also think it very unlikely Spion's a "boss".
You a peasant?
If you find a post where I've come out against this strike at anytime you win the glove puppet. Sweeps his mate.
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
written after this weeks SW came out
What you were saying may not be exactly true, but let's pretend it is.
What you're saying is he held an opinion, learned some new facts, and then changed that opinion? How shocking!
audiotech
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or to put it another way:
he held an opinion, was told it wasn't the right one, and 'corrected' it
'
Yeah,
don't tell me? I was corrected by Sooty. TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
"trotbot! trotbot! trotbot! trotbot! trotbot! "or to put it another way:
he held an opinion, was told it wasn't the right one, and 'corrected' it
'
for me that betrays your lazy slovenly mind.
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
no that's because you have to lie about people, and even when that lie is shown to be ridiculous, you wriggle and twist to make another equally vacuous bullshit point.that's because you have to have someone else do your thinking for you tho, isn't it.
Come on tell us about your conspiracy theory about sock puppets.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
'shown'? You have done no such thing. All you and tweedledumber have done is come along and chuck a few insults about, saying next top nothing of any use about the strike.
Oh, and you should look up what 'conspiracy theory' actually means if you are going to try and use the phrase in a sentence.
Or you could just say something about the actual thread topic.
Oh, and you should look up what 'conspiracy theory' actually means if you are going to try and use the phrase in a sentence.
Or you could just say something about the actual thread topic.
audiotech
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audiotech
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Unless you trot twats have anything worthwhile to add, shut the fuck up.....
I indicated that it could be be worthwhile for you to back-up your claim that I was not supporting the strike, or have you yourself shut the fuck up?
anyway, back to gaza and palestine, anti-semitism, now
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/03/venezuela-jews-chavez-synagogue-vandalised
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/03/venezuela-jews-chavez-synagogue-vandalised
Its incredible how quickly some of the Left and plenty of liberals have identified racism, xenophobia amongst the strikers, almost as if they expected it from the working class!
well thats typical white middle class attitudes and part of the governments stragdey to undermine the striker imo
who or what is FTP?
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