Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...

[tangentlama]

So does the fact that wildcat strikes spread and seem to have gotten some sort of result, change the balance of power in this country a little?

Was capital & friends very happy with the anti-union anti-strike laws that have ben brought in over the decades, but are now facing up to the idea that the laws might be no barrier to this sort of application of power by workers?

Or do these wildcat strikes make little difference to that sort of thing? Im not very clued up about union & strike laws and how much they were successful at neutering worker power in the last decade or 2, so I dont know if the present action has set any precedents.

Also do the new industry code of conduct things that the government have been going on about today, seem to be any good?

There's a mass meeting between the Union and the unofficial strikers first, and then the details of the agreement reached through ACAS between Union officials and TOTAL tomorrow morning (5 Feb) at 7:30 am and will recommend a return to work.
http://www.processengineering.co.uk/Articles/309894/Refinery+strike+spreads+across+UK.htm

Whether the unofficial strikers accept the agreement is another matter altogether.

Has the unofficial strike achieved anything? Yes, I think it has.

It's brought out into the open, the BNP's cynical hijacking of workers' valid woes and enabled the rank and file to openly march the c*nts off the picket line and move away from the trap which Prime Minister Brown set back in September 2007 with his repeating of the NF slogan BJFBW and highlighted once again how Brown's ideas are unworkable.

It's brought the situation here, however cackhandedly at first, to the attention of the CGIL and highlighted a need for UK Unions to work openly with other European TU's and achieve some solidarity of purpose, since the problem with contract/agencies is felt in all states across the European Union (and beyond).

It's brought to everyone's attention (once the BJFBW/'foreign labour' bind has been moved away from) that there are some serious problems re. wages/conditions for contract/agency construction employers across European Union and also globally.

 

[frogwoman]

National strike on the 27th feb apparently. I just looked on the facebook group and Richard Barnbrook appears to be one the list of members of the group, not siure what that means tho if anything.

 

[Fedayn]

National strike on the 27th feb apparently. I just looked on the facebook group and Richard Barnbrook appears to be one the list of members of the group, not siure what that means tho if anything.

All the posters on the Facebook site are fash backed or fash supporting.

 

[frogwoman]

All the posters on the Facebook site are fash backed or fash supporting.

Yeah i gathered that mate from a cursory look at the page.

i dunno what to think about it - what do you reckon can practically be done?

 

[Fedayn]

Yeah i gathered that mate from a cursory look at the page.

i dunno what to think about it - what do you reckon can practically be done?

Well there's a few people I know on it, they're deffo not fash.

Has there been an offical call for a strike on that day or is it the far-right trying it on?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not really, it's where the notion of Europe as a set of separate countries comes into play. This kind of migratory labour is commonplace in the US, because it's seen as a single entity by it's populace. Legally these Italian workers are identical to UK labour - they are not foreigners - they're just from a different state in Europe who speak a different language. As such this in a bizarre way is saying that they are just workers same as the Brits.

This is the essential problem that I've noticed with union response to European labour, going back to the 1990s and the first wave of recruitment agencies across EU/Eastern Europe but no unions out there. This desire to still see the EU as completely separate nations is bollocks, and it's this short sightedness which is catching up with people. The irony being that as cap globalises, it should also be easier to attain the kind of internationalism that any form of workers' struggle requires and yet, despite this being leftist doctrine it's been a completely missed opportunity for 20 years, and you're now left with pitiful economic nationalism and these tired arguments about how wanting to protect local jobs from 'foreigners' from Europe, when their legal status effectively makes them no different from 'local' workers...

This sums it up for me. And the logical conclusion ought to be for EU unions to if not merge, at the very least form very close links and agree to reciprocal arrangements.

The British workers lose their jobs, the Portuguese workers are paid a low wage, and the employers are laughing. Some people are going to do very well out of this recession.

 

[frogwoman]

Well there's a few people I know on it, they're deffo not fash.

Has there been an offical call for a strike on that day or is it the far-right trying it on?

I don't know

do you know anything about it? what do the people you know who are on it say?

i'm not assuming anything about it like i said, ... i haven't had anything more than a cursory look tbh

 

[where to]

ive been all over the web tonight and only seen reference to it on the facebook page and the BNP front blog british wildcats.

sounds like a loady shite tbh.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

One of the Portuguese workers was interviewed on BBC News just now. He reckons they were being paid around 1000 euro/month less than British workers.

Now, what was that strike about again?

Does anyone have a video of this? What news bulletin was it on?

 

[tangentlama]

Well there's a few people I know on it, they're deffo not fash.

Has there been an offical call for a strike on that day or is it the far-right trying it on?

Here's a facebook group calling for national strike: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=47415248166. Some nationalist links but not to Bee En Pee.
Reckon there might be a link to 'English Democrats' supporters who are English nationalists seeking devolvement from Britain in the same manner as Scotland and Wales, as well as being Eurosceptics.

Someone appeared in bearfacts to post a link to the fb group calling for national strike
http://www.bearfacts.co.uk/Forum/index.php?topic=337.0

The BJFBW facebook group is actively deleting threads/some posts from Bee En Pee members.

I think the creator of the fb group calling for national strike says he's not a Bee En Pee member but then doesn't give the name of which party he supports (post 19) http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?u...start=0&hash=f3bfa4c59ddae286d5a78ba457186f3a so I reckon he's an English Democrats party member.

 

[dennisr]

With that in mind I'm looking forward now to assessing:

a) the results of the strike, how they match up to the strikers' demands and how those compare to what socialists should/did argue for in such a case. I'll get onto this myself in the next day or two.
b) the effectiveness of the Socialist Party's presence at the heart of the dispute. Perhaps you could kick us off there with an explanation of what the SP argued for on the strike cttee, which arguments it won and which it lost. Which of the strike's demands were the SP's and which did it try to change and fail?

I'm keen to hear how the SP 'made those theories relevant'.

Your arrogance knows no bounds, does it? First you completely misread the nature of the strike. You ignored every point made that did not fit in with your ready-made black/white view. Then you completely misread the actions of those involved so you opposed the strike, and now - irony of ironies you demand that we assess our role and report to you!! - fuck yourself fella. You haven't got a leg to stand on - You sided with the enemies - its simply a releif you could only manage to do that much on bulletin board (so much for 'engaging the workers'). You stick to tail-ending the bosses and their kept press and your continued internet-based 'activity'.

The clear position of the SP is online at the following address:

Lindsey refinery: workers show their strength
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/6851

Firm strike leadership gains results
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/6852

History of the oil refinery action: Organising real trade unionism
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/6853

Staythorpe power station: "It's all about money"
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/6855

 

[butchersapron]

One of the Portuguese workers was interviewed on BBC News just now. He reckons they were being paid around 1000 euro/month less than British workers.

Now, what was that strike about again?

I've had someone else confirm they saw this as well, and the 1000 euros figure. A 'behind the scenes' investigation.

 

[danny la rouge]

No surprise there, then.

 

[danny la rouge]

I see they've voted to go back:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7871657.stm

 

[butchersapron]

The deal, negotiated by the union, provides 102 new jobs for British workers in addition to the posts awarded to an Italian company.

No foreign workers are expected to lose their posts at Total's oil refinery.

So those saying that they won't support the strikes because a victory could only end up in foreign workers being sacked - oh dear.

 

[danny la rouge]

Indeed.

 

[ymu]

I've had someone else confirm they saw this as well, and the 1000 euros figure. A 'behind the scenes' investigation.

Cheers.

Nigel, I thought it was on the BBC News at Ten but I can't see the piece on iPlayer. Pretty sure it was a current affairs programme latish yesterday evening, not long before I posted, but I don't think it was Newsnight. I don't have charge of the remote in our house, so I'm not always sure what I'm watching.

 

[e19896]

So to sum up, The British Left, and some Anarchist:

The English working class finds itself discriminated against, and only at this point are the people of England allowed to say, "Unfair", without being called racists. Read

http://projectsheffield.wordpress.com/2009/01/31/a-racist-strike/

http://projectsheffield.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/action-against-classism/

http://projectsheffield.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/refinery-strike-class-not-country-is-it-over/

There’s no need for the Left to tie itself in circles – certainly not for those of us who never abandoned class politics in the first place. It might pose problems however for New Labour and their fellow travellers who are committed to the EU project and the international solidarity of capital it promotes. Of course things are never clear cut – some of the British refinery workers may harbour – or even voice – racist attitudes, and doubtless the BNP are rubbing their hands in glee. These attitudes need to be challenged and where necessary confronted if fascists try to intervene on the picket lines. But there can be no question of not supporting the refinery workers.

I have been taught nowt from this Strike, other than what moust of The Working Class allready understood The British Left, and some Anarchist might like to say there acting for the working class, as if a bunch of Middle Class would ever do this, it is utter bollocks and a lie, that again has been exposed, instaed of wondering why the far right are growing, look at yourselfs and your disgracefull actions towords The Working Class, it has been proven that The Socalist Party are more than just a slogan, here i have to pay some respect towords them, the rest of the left and some anarchist is not time we made the middle class history?

 

[Fruitloop]

Employers not being honest about pay and conditions!

 

[belboid]

a thought occurred to me last night, aren't/weren't the strikers essentially asking for the introduction of the equivalent of a docks labour scheme (as abolished by thatch in 89) for refinery workers?

 

[dennisr]

So those saying that they won't support the strikes because a victory could only end up in foreign workers being sacked - oh dear.

And - to add to the point - they conciously voted for that even though they were wanting more jobs precisely because they knew this would be perceived as 'anti-foreign worker'

 

[dennisr]

A Short Report from italy:

The strike is big news here in Italy. Inevitably the press and media are portraying it as an "anti-Italian strike" - a strike for "British jobs for British workers".

The anti-immigrant Lega Nord, who are in the government, are 'warning' that similar 'anti-foreigner' protests will soon break out in the north of Italy.

But Giorgio Cremaschi, a left leader of the metal workers' union Fiom attacked neo-liberal "social dumping" policies that try to foment a "war amongst the poor".

"If the Italian workers are being paid less than the British workers and their conditions are worse, this strike is a just one" he said. "We have to fight for equal conditions".

 

[danny la rouge]

A Short Report from italy:

The strike is big news here in Italy. Inevitably the press and media are portraying it as an "anti-Italian strike" - a strike for "British jobs for British workers".

The anti-immigrant Lega Nord, who are in the government, are 'warning' that similar 'anti-foreigner' protests will soon break out in the north of Italy.

But Giorgio Cremaschi, a left leader of the metal workers' union Fiom attacked neo-liberal "social dumping" policies that try to foment a "war amongst the poor".

"If the Italian workers are being paid less than the British workers and their conditions are worse, this strike is a just one" he said. "We have to fight for equal conditions".

Thanks for that.

 

[snadge]

what does the capitalist lackey spion think now?

 

[chilango]

A Short Report from italy:

The strike is big news here in Italy. Inevitably the press and media are portraying it as an "anti-Italian strike" - a strike for "British jobs for British workers".

The anti-immigrant Lega Nord, who are in the government, are 'warning' that similar 'anti-foreigner' protests will soon break out in the north of Italy.

But Giorgio Cremaschi, a left leader of the metal workers' union Fiom attacked neo-liberal "social dumping" policies that try to foment a "war amongst the poor".

"If the Italian workers are being paid less than the British workers and their conditions are worse, this strike is a just one" he said. "We have to fight for equal conditions".

Where is this from?

 

[Spion]

First you completely misread the nature of the strike.

What was the nature of the strike?

1. What were the demands? At the level of the mass of the rank and file there was a clear demand for British jobs for British workers, and placards to that effect were very visible. At the level of the strike cttee's demands this was muted somewhat into a demand that future employees on the site be 'locally skilled'.

2. There were also - to the credit of the strike - demands for equal pay and for unionisation of foreign workers. In fact, three out of the seven demands were for reaching out to the Italians. But what was actually done about that? Given the prominence of those demands you would have expected there to have been a visible presence appealing to the Italians to strike with the Lindsey workers. Maybe it did happen and the media have conspired to deny us knowledge of it. Or maybe it's just that those demands were way out of kilter with the mood of the mass of strikers?

so you opposed the strike, and now - irony of ironies you demand that we assess our role and report to you!! - fuck yourself fella. You haven't got a leg to stand on - You sided with the enemies

I'm not going to be dishonest, I did oppose it, on the basis that the core demands regarding future employment were for preferential treatment for British workers. That said, if I was part of an organisation or in a different union I would have organised to visit the strikers and talk to them about those concerns. If I had been present and gone along with the strike I would fought tooth and nail to change the nationalist nature of its key demand regarding future employment at the site and against the BJ4BW sentiment among the mass of strikers. I would have argued that the key task was to emphasise the demands for jobs and equal rights for ALL workers by practically and very visibly reaching out to the Italian workers to win them over to strike also and to ensure they are employed at equal rates. That the 'socialists' who have been involved directly in this strike have failed to do that is to their discredit.

Which of its demands has the strike won?
The strike demanded:

No victimisation of workers taking solidarity action.
All workers in UK to be covered by the NAECI agreement.
Union-controlled registering of unemployed and local skilled union members with nominating rights as work becomes available.
Government and employer investment in proper training/apprenticeships for the new generation of construction workers. Fight for a future for young people
All immigrant labour to be unionised.
Trade union assistance for immigrant workers, via interpreters, to give right of access to trade union advice - to promote active integrated trade union members.
Build links with construction trade unions on the continent

So far, what I can see that the strike has won is 102 news jobs. That's a good thing, but it doesn't match with what was demanded. You could say that that's a result of the BJ4BW workers demand, although modified - by the bosses as a result of not wating to break discrimination law and becuase of existing contractual arrangements with IREM? - as the end result is that the Italians also have their jobs intact.

Maybe someone knows whether any of the strike's *stated* demands have been won?

 

[Spion]

what does the capitalist lackey spion think now?

LOL, you're such a pathetic caricature. Read for yourself /\/\/\/\

 

[snadge]

LOL, you're such a pathetic caricature. Read for yourself /\/\/\/\

you what?

The company will HAVE to pay NAECI rates now they have UK workers working alongside them, plain and simple or the lads will walk again.

You seem to have next to no idea how this stuff works.

 

[Fedayn]

But what was actually done about that? Given the prominence of those demands you would have expected there to have been a visible presence appealing to the Italians to strike with the Lindsey workers. Maybe it did happen and the media have conspired to deny us knowledge of it. Or maybe it's just that those demands were way out of kilter with the mood of the mass of strikers

Absolutely, in fact so out of kilter with 'the mood of the mass of the strikers' that those strikers voted overwhelmingly for those demands. Spot on, the best way of proving that the 'mood of the mass of the strikers' were/are against the Italian workers and in regard to these 3 demands is to show that they voted overwhelmingly for them.

 

[Spion]

Absolutely, in fact so out of kilter with 'the mood of the mass of the strikers' that those strikers voted overwhelmingly for those demands. Spot on, the best way of proving that the 'mood of the mass of the strikers' were/are against the Italian workers and in regard to these 3 demands is to show that they voted overwhelmingly for them.

So, what was the practical effect of that positive vote? In other words, what overtures did the strikers make towards the Italians to get them out too?