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Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...

I did lose some sympathy when one worker was interviewed and said "I cant work alongside these Portuguese and Iti's" - they have a good case if there were jobs that UK workers couldnt apply for, but if the UK workers have a problem working with non-UK workers then that is another thing altogether
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The BBC editing ferrago is having some effect on 'progressive opinion'
 
treelover said:
I sincerely hope so, the shit the unemployed protesters are to get under Purnell's welfare reforms which see them as 'offenders' wearing orange bibs and picking up litter, no wonder they are fearful and anxious.The question remains will any of the left, even the SP, initiate such a vehicle, the record, re welfare cuts being ignored is not promising. Their new 'youth right to work campaign, sadly doesnt mention benefits,etc.
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Hopefully their campaign will be based on gaining full employment, support for people who are genuinly incapable of doing 'any' work & training and facilities for those who are challenged to get them back into a working environment.

Not supporting a self sustaining self perpetuating care industry, which worse effects are on their clients.
 
Nigel said:
Hopefully their campaign will be based on gaining full employment, support for people who are genuinly incapable of doing 'any' work & training and facilities for those who are challenged to get them back into a working environment.

Not supporting a self sustaining self perpetuating care industry, which worse effects are on their clients.
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Oh for fucks sake stop your stupid beef over this.
 
In Bloom said:
Good stuff, are the SP planning to try and get that leaflet to the Italians at LOR?
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Yep, don;t know how easy they will find it though - I'll have to wait for reports. It is already being circulated among left activists in Italy as far as I know (Italian CWI did the translation) - although we will have to see what that results in. The first problem in Italy is obviously to cut across media lies. (the Italian CWI is miniscule - and spread the length of the Italian 'boot' unfortunately)
 
dennisr said:
Yep, don;t know how easy they will find it though - I'll have to wait for reports. It is already being circulated among left activists in Italy as far as I know (Italian CWI did the translation) - although we will have to see what that results in. The first problem in Italy is obviously to cut across media lies. (the Italian CWI is miniscule - and spread the length of the Italian 'boot' unfortunately)
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What about the rest of the Italian Left?

Any groups that the UK left could approach?

Have to say I've only come across them once so far, usually only see the squatter types around in my part of Milan....
 
chilango said:
What about the rest of the Italian Left?

Any groups that the UK left could approach?

Have to say I've only come across them once so far, usually only see the squatter types around in my part of Milan....
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I honestly could not say mate - the CWI International Office and leading trade union members will be doing its bit in contacting individuals, groups and TUs. They have a few 'heavier' weight contacts (I could only hazard a guess as to how heavy weight they actually are... there is one sympathetic left publisher who printed a book on the practice of the CWI - a Question and Answer session - there's a link on the CWI website to the Italian language book).

Milano - beautiful place - lucky fella :)
 
dennisr said:
I honestly could not say mate - the CWI International Office and leading trade union members will be doing its bit in contacting individuals, groups and TUs. They have a few 'heavier' weight contacts (I could only hazard a guess as to how heavy weight they actually are... there is one sympathetic left publisher who printed a book on the practice of the CWI - a Question and Answer session - there's a link on the CWI website to the Italian language book).

Milano - beautiful place - lucky fella :)
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:cool:

The coverage here seems to solely be that of the "racist, anti-Italian, rise of the BNP" type thing.


...course up here in a similar scenario a bunch of Scicilian labourers would almost certainly face a hostile and "racist" reaction from many...
 
CGIL are desperate to come over and talk with strikers & the Italian workers, can't be that hard to get hold of them
 
chilango said:
:...course up here in a similar scenario a bunch of Scicilian labourers would almost certainly face a hostile and "racist" reaction from many...
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There was a telling bit in recent news coverage of this dispute where the interviewer pushed a striker on the 'local jobs' aspect - desperate for a bigot soundbite - "what if the contracted in workers came from the Isle of Wight, would you still oppose this?" - the reply was "Yes" (of course...)

Here's the book: http://lottacwi.net/lotta/mitw.html
(the websites crap though :-( )
 
In Bloom said:
The reference to "European labour" is about non-union workers being imported from outside, often on lower rates than local labour, for a particular job, not a generalised opposition to foreigners. This is not an issue of migration, but of union busting.
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Thats part of it. But the response to that situation was a clear demand to favour British workers over foreigners. I don't get why you can't hold both ideas in your head at the same time.

In Bloom said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/feb/04/strikes-unions

Any thoughts, Spion?
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That's it. I'm 110% behind them now they have taken up Marxism.

*joke*

Well, it's a good thing that it's getting said, but needs to be/have been translated into practical demands

Anyway, looks like it's over now. Be interesting to see what the settlement is
 
Spion said:
Thats part of it. But the response to that situation was a clear demand to favour British workers over foreigners. I don't get why you can't hold both ideas in your head at the same time.
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No, the demand that was actually agreed upon was that locally based (not necessarily originally "local") unionised workers would be given the opportunity to apply for jobs at the site, which could easily include migrant workers who've moved to Britain.
 
dennisr said:
You would think so wouldn't you?
You have to ask what role the union tops are playing in delaying such.
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fuck the union tops,I imagine they'd be happy to respond to any invite from the strike committee or anyone else like that.
 
In Bloom said:
No, the demand that was actually agreed upon was that locally based (not necessarily originally "local") unionised workers would be given the opportunity to apply for jobs at the site, which could easily include migrant workers who've moved to Britain.
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IE, not someone based in another country. Therefore 'Local jobs for local people/BJ4B(-based)W'
 
Talkie Toaster said:
Ah, treelover, you're back on this thread. Don't forget to answer the question that both cantsin & I asked you a few pages ago. :)

What part of that article do you think attacks the strikers?
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As the late Tony Cliff put it,

You are on a picket line and someone makes a racist remark, you have 3 choices -

1. Storm off because you won’t stand shoulder-to-shoulder with racists, this is sectarian leftism.

2. Ignore it and carry on standing on the picket line. This is opportunism.

3. Stand shoulder to shoulder with your fellow workers (because the emancipation of the workers is the act of the workers - Marx) while arguing tooth and nail against any nationalism or racism. This is socialism.
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would you be opposed to workers, who were being made redundant from a company, being offered any new jobs in the same company ahead of any new recruits, Spion?
 
belboid said:
would you be opposed to workers, who were being made redundant from a company, being offered any new jobs in the same company ahead of any new recruits, Spion?
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Is it a scenario where there is competition between defined groups of workers for those jobs? Has the company already recruited any new workers in this hypothetical scenario?
 
belboid said:
Deal reached apparently - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7868777.stm
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The mass meeting to vote on it is on Thursday

Interesting bit here on the earlier 'deal' the strikers rejected:

"...But our correspondent said they believed the figure was too low, and rejected it. They also demanded proof that the foreign workers being brought in were on the same pay and terms and conditions as their British counterparts."...

the bigots ;)

And a wee bit more:
"The first offer put to the mass meeting, of 60 jobs, was a "derisory olive branch", said Unite shop steward Kenny Ward. He said the mood was resolute and the workers were "determined to achieve a victory at Lindsey because this is where the fight started". He said people had had enough of employers using "unjust laws" to "pitch one European worker against fellow European workers" in the pursuit of profit."

Even more:
"Protesters have vehemently denied the issue is about racism against the foreign workers themselves. They say it is a battle to allow British workers equal access to jobs on British construction sites. "

xenophobes...
 
aah, a quick read made it sound like the stewards had agreed the deal, on closer inspection it seems only to be the union tops that did
 
belboid said:
lets say there are more being made redundant than there are jobs on offer


take it either way
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You fight to make the bosses pay for jobs for all that need them, without discrimination that could lead to divisions between workers on any grounds.

It should be an ABC of socialist politics
 
dennisr said:
And a wee bit more:
"The first offer put to the mass meeting, of 60 jobs, was a "derisory olive branch", said Unite shop steward Kenny Ward. He said the mood was resolute and the workers were "determined to achieve a victory at Lindsey because this is where the fight started". He said people had had enough of employers using "unjust laws" to "pitch one European worker against fellow European workers" in the pursuit of profit."
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Racist..... Just look at the racism and xenophobia dripping from that quote!!
 
Spion said:
You fight to make the bosses pay for jobs for all that need them, without discrimination that could lead to divisions between workers on any grounds.

It should be an ABC of socialist politics
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it is. You are supporting the right of redundant workers to be first in line for any such new jobs. Which is pretty much what the strike is over. Sub-contracting is the enemy, not italians
 
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