How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[elbows]

Unless my memory has gone wrong I thought the faxed photos were shown to victims by journalists. So either a totally different photo part of the story, or its going to turn out that the 'police showed me a photo' thing is also a mangled recollection by victim(s). As best I know the police wont comment at the moment though due to inquiries/investigations.

 

[tufty79]

I read that Messham was shown a faxed picture by the police but after he Id'ed the person it was thought that the quality of the faxed pic was not good enough to use that positive ID as evidence.

In his original investigation Angus Stickler also spoke to another victim who claimed to have been abused by the politician, as well as others.
Newsnight/the Bureau of Investigative Journalism has been unable to track him down for this latest report....
However, he said that the two police officers he showed the photograph to dismissed his claims, saying that since the pictures were faxed they were not sufficiently reliable evidence and no further action was take

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20182106

 

[Treacle Toes]

Thanks

 

[free spirit]

Sorry, I wasn't that clear. When I asked does it matter it was more because the cryptic argument/exchange about this was going on forever above and none of this stuff can be checked/known for sure.

oh, well yes I agree with that, I thought my initial post about it was fairly self explanatory and uncontroversial tbh.

 

[butchersapron]

Two things: who did he see? Who did the police show him? (assuming all real)

 

[butchersapron]

oh, well yes I agree with that, I thought my initial post about it was fairly self explanatory and uncontroversial tbh.

It's a bad thing if the theory just turns on its side and then involves someone else. Sort that out.

 

[caesar]

What you basing that on caesar?

Sorry got the story a little mixed up, clarified by elbows & tufty79 above , the faxed pictures were to id the suspects. Still not clear though whether it was a picture that the victims had obtained, from a journalist maybe, or a library, or it was one faxed to the police. Either way it seems a pretty rubbish reason to take "no further action" as if the mugshots weren't good enough, why didn't they just try and get better ones? If it is true it just sounds like the police didn't want to listen & just used any old excuse to ignore the claims. Which then leads to the polaroids, what on earth was the reason to have disposed of these, other than to conceal potential suspect's identities?

 

[smokedout]

Essentially it rationalises the entire situation and brings it out of the full on nationwide masonic paedo network territory and into criminal gangs facilitating paedo activity by rich paedos in exchange for large quantities of cash territory.

actually this is where i thought the drugs metaphor broke down. to most people this shit is unacceptable beyond even criminal norms - that doesnt mean no-ones made money, just that anyone who has was probably already involved and just took the initiative and organised stuff, or perhaps took a few quid to turn a blind eye

 

[tufty79]

Two things: who did he see? Who did the police show him? (assuming all real)

i'm wondering that too
e2a: wondering who messham was shown a photo of, and wondering who the unnamed victim's photo was of.

 

[elbows]

OK so to be clear, there are four different photo-related aspects to the stories we have heard so far:

1) Photo shown by journalist to victim(s).
2) Faxed photo shown to police by victim(s).
3) Photo shown by police to victim(s).
4) Photos Messham says he stole from an abusers flat and gave to police.

1 & 2 may be the same photos. 3 might be a separate photo, might be one of the number 4 photos. Or might be a mangled memory of 2, with the story inverted.

edited to add that as per a story on channel 4 news earlier this week, a book of photos were destroyed by court order. The suggestion is that these are the photos I labelled as 4 above, although its always possible they were other ones obtained in another manner as part of the inquiry/police investigations.

 

[butchersapron]

Sorry got the story a little mixed up, clarified by elbows & tufty79 above , the faxed pictures were to id the suspects. Still not clear though whether it was a picture that the victims had obtained, from a journalist maybe, or a library, or it was one faxed to the police. Either way it seems a pretty rubbish reason to take "no further action" as if the mugshots weren't good enough, why didn't they just try and get better ones? If it is true it just sounds like the police didn't want to listen & just used any old excuse to ignore the claims. Which then leads to the polaroids, what on earth was the reason to have disposed of these, other than to conceal potential suspect's identities?

Yeah. God.

 

[butchersapron]

OK so to be clear, there are four different photo-related aspects to the stories we have heard so far:

1) Photo shown by journalist to victim(s).
2) Faxed photo shown to police by victim(s).
3) Photo shown by police to victim(s).
4) Photos Messham says he stole from an abusers flat and gave to police.

1 & 2 may be the same photos. 3 might be a separate photo, might be one of the number 4 photos. Or might be a mangled memory of 2, with the story inverted.

Read this people. Read it.

 

[butchersapron]

Whom told messham - that this was macalpine? In what setting? A suite? By line up? They are going to kill the poor lad.

 

[free spirit]

It's a bad thing if the theory just turns on its side and then involves someone else. Sort that out.

thanks once again for your wonderful cryptic insight.

 

[butchersapron]

thanks once again for your wonderful cryptic insight.

IT'S ALL TRUE!!! TA

 

[tufty79]

Whom told messham - that this was macalpine?

the police, according to messham. don't know about the setting though, only that i'd presume it wasn't in a line up, as he's solely talked about them naming a photo.

They are going to kill the poor lad.

?

 

[butchersapron]

the police, according to messham. don't know about the setting though, only that i'd presume it wasn't in a line up, as he's solely talked about them naming a photo.

?

Yeah, they are going to kill him. Now.

 

[caesar]

The question to me is, what about the affidavits?

 

[free spirit]

OK so to be clear, there are four different photo-related aspects to the stories we have heard so far:

1) Photo shown by journalist to victim(s).
2) Faxed photo shown to police by victim(s).
3) Photo shown by police to victim(s).
4) Photos Messham says he stole from an abusers flat and gave to police.

1 & 2 may be the same photos. 3 might be a separate photo, might be one of the number 4 photos. Or might be a mangled memory of 2, with the story inverted.

If I can venture an idea without you invoking godwins law again, I was thinking that a likely candidate for a journalist showing multiple victims photos would be simon regan from scallywag. Given that he's on the record saying that he met with 12 of them and had got signed statements off 10 of them, which he says backed up his allegations, one of which related to Lord McAlpine.

 

[elbows]

The question to me is, what about the affidavits?

Which ones?

 

[elbows]

If I can venture an idea without you invoking godwins law again

I'm not going to put up with this bullshit from you. I mentioned nazis on the masons thread because of historical information about how Nazi Germany treated masons. And I setup another thread to stop all this side-drool from polluting this thread. So stop being a twat.

 

[butchersapron]

If I can venture an idea without you invoking godwins law again, I was thinking that a likely candidate for a journalist showing multiple victims photos would be simon regan from scallywag. Given that he's on the record saying that he met with 12 of them and had got signed statements off 10 of them, which he says backed up his allegations, one of which related to Lord McAlpine.

Where are the other statements? Have you seen them? Do you know who they are?

 

[caesar]

Which ones?

The ones Simon Regan said he got from ten of the boys from the Welsh care homes, two of whom had identified an address in Pimlico linked to a Conservative figure where they had been taken for parties.

 

[free spirit]

actually this is where i thought the drugs metaphor broke down. to most people this shit is unacceptable beyond even criminal norms - that doesnt mean no-ones made money, just that anyone who has was probably already involved and just took the initiative and organised stuff, or perhaps took a few quid to turn a blind eye

there are criminal gangs smuggling young girls into the UK on false pretenses then drugging them and forcing them into a life as a drug addicted indentured sex slave.

why do you think these sorts of immoral vicious bastards would give a toss about the morality of supplying kids to rich paedophiles prepared to pay through the nose for their service and discretion?

 

[butchersapron]

The ones Simon Regan said he got from ten of the boys from the Welsh care homes, two of whom had identified an address in Pimlico linked to a Conservative figure where they had been taken for parties.

Does these exist? Have you seen them?

 

[butchersapron]

there are criminal gangs smuggling young girls into the UK on false pretenses then drugging them and forcing them into a life as a drug addicted indentured sex slave.

why do you think these sorts of immoral vicious bastards would give a toss about the morality of supplying kids to rich paedophiles prepared to pay through the nose for their service and discretion?

Don't you care about **** line. Desperate

 

[caesar]

Does these exist? Have you seen them?

Regan said they existed, and I think it's likely they did and he made it known to the Conservatives, which is why he was not sued, on that issue, at least.

 

[elbows]

We should probably try to find more info about some of the one-liners in that Mirror article about Allen now working at a hotel.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/convicted-north-wales-care-home-1430164

A report in 1996 suggested Allen had connections with senior establishment figures and was hiring out children as rent boys.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I used to know Simon Reagan, at least a bit. He was a 'local character' in Camden when I used to live there. Or you might say, 'local nutter' generally to be found drunkenly haranguing random strangers about Prince Philip having Princess Di whacked and so on.

I wouldn't personally be inclined to build anything too substantial on him as a source.

 

[butchersapron]

Regan said they existed, and think it's likely they did and he made it known to the Conservatives, which is why he was not sued, on that issue, at least.

On what basis?