How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[caesar]

On what basis?

As he had affidavits from 10 victims, if the people he named sued him, it would all be dragged out in a huge court case about sex abuse, which they absolutely would not want 2/3 years before a general election, especially with the cash for questions thing already going on.

 

[butchersapron]

As he had affidavits from 10 victims, if the people he named sued him, it would all be dragged out in a huge court case about sex abuse, which they absolutely would not want 2/3 years before a general election, especially with the cash for questions thing already going on.

Cheers.

 

[free spirit]

Where are the other statements? Have you seen them? Do you know who they are?

No I've not seen them.

I don't know where they are, all I know is what regan* wrote when he made those statements about having had these affidavits signed and filed in his office in case he needed to produce them in court.

He said that they went missing following a rent dispute with his landlord in which the entire contents of his office were then sold under court order by the landlord to a certain member of the conservative party research department who I'm trying to remember not to name due to his litigious history.

When he finally managed to get his records back he says all the files related to the welsh paedo investigation were missing, including the affidavits.


*Assuming the article credited to regan actually was written by regan, which is a bit hard to check given he's no longer with us. I'm making no claims for the veracity of his statements, just putting him out there as a likely candidate for being the journalist in question given his claims about having interviewed 12 of the victims and them having supported his claims, one of which was about McAlpine.

 

[elbows]

The explanation given for why those files are unavailable is that Dr Julian Lewis got the entire contents of their office as a result of unpaid rent legal action.

However this may just be a convenient excuse.

As far as I know the closest thing we have to anything which substantiates some parts of the London story from Regan is the Sky interview with a victim the other day, which seemed like a reasonable fit but didnt go anywhere near detail on people or precise location.

 

[elbows]

I used to know Simon Reagan, at least a bit. He was a 'local character' in Camden when I used to live there. Or you might say, 'local nutter' generally to be found drunkenly haranguing random strangers about Prince Philip having Princess Di whacked and so on.

I wouldn't personally be inclined to build anything too substantial on him as a source.

One press report from the time had him as a self-confessed dipsomaniac, and another characterisation I read somewhere was that he slept in a caravan with one eye open.

The downing street caterer who was falsely accused of having an affair with John Major eventually decided not to bother going after them legally herself once she 'saw what kind of people they were'.

 

[free spirit]

These are the relevant quotes from this article

http://pebpr.blogspot.co.uk/p/scallywags-simon-regan.html

In the early nineties, in the now defunct Scallywag magazine, which I founded, we interviewed in some depth twelve former inmates at Bryn Estyn who had all been involved in the Wrexham paedophile ring, which the tribunal acknowledges existed. Most of these interviews were extremely harrowing and disturbing, but were gently and sensitively conducted over pub lunches where the victim could relax. We subsequently persuaded ten of them to make sworn affidavits which we proposed to use as back up to half a dozen paedophile stories we later published.

Subsequently, over a rent dispute which is still a matter of litigation, xxx, now Conservative MP but then deputy head of research at Conservative Central Office in Smith Square, managed to purchase the contents of our offices, which included all our files. It had been alleged that we owed rent, which we disputed, but under a court order the landlords were able to change the locks and seize our assets which included all our files, including those we had made on paedophiles. It was apparently quite legal, but it was most certainly a dirty trick.

Subsequently, during a court case initiated by xxx, I was able in my defence to seek discovery of documents and asked to see the seized files. The paedophile papers were missing. This is a very great shame, because Sir Ronald Waterhouse certainly should have been aware of them.

I know the source is a bit suspect (in fact I've specifically stated my concerns about it earlier in the thread) but it would certainly seem to fit with the idea of a journalist showing them photos in the early 90s.

sorry about the formatting, I don't know how to sort it out.

 

[butchersapron]

"i know"

 

[caesar]

No I've not seen them.

I don't know where they are, all I know is what regan* wrote when he made those statements about having had these affidavits signed and filed in his office in case he needed to produce them in court.

He said that they went missing following a rent dispute with his landlord in which the entire contents of his office were then sold under court order by the landlord to a certain member of the conservative party research department who I'm trying to remember not to name due to his litigious history.

When he finally managed to get his records back he says all the files related to the welsh paedo investigation were missing, including the affidavits.

It was Dr. Julian Lewis I think, so the Conservatives then got hold of the names of all these victims, including those two who alleged abuse in the Pimlico flat?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

One press report from the time had him as a self-confessed dipsomaniac, and another characterisation I read somewhere was that he slept in a caravan with one eye open.

The downing street caterer who was falsely accused of having an affair with John Major eventually decided not to bother going after them legally herself once she 'saw what kind of people they were'.

He was a nice enough bloke from what I could tell from buying him drinks a few times, but was generally found staggering around Camden at night, yelling stuff at random strangers (e.g. me) on the street about various establishment conspiracies. I have no doubt that the establishment (or at least the bits of it he'd accused of various dodgy stuff) was conspiring against him to some degree, but I still wouldn't take any of his assertions as fact without a whole lot of corroborating evidence from sources who weren't completely off their heads.

 

[butchersapron]

It was Dr. Julian Lewis I think, so the Conservatives then got hold of the names of all these victims, including those two who alleged abuse in the Pimlico flat?

Name them.

 

[elbows]

He was a nice enough bloke from what I could tell from buying him drinks a few times, but was generally found staggering around Camden at night, yelling stuff at random strangers on the street about various establishment conspiracies. I have no doubt that the establishment (or at least the bits of it he'd accused of various dodgy stuff) was conspiring against him to some degree, but I still wouldn't take any of his assertions as fact without a whole lot of corroborating evidence from sources who weren't completely off their heads.

Cheers for the personal accounts. Pretty damn consistent with what I had assumed really. Being such a character probably made it more likely that he'd be willing to touch dangerous stories, but less likely to be taken seriously. Which is a terrible contradiction to live with, albeit one that probably increases chances of survival, at least until they drink themselves to death.

 

[free spirit]

I used to know Simon Reagan, at least a bit. He was a 'local character' in Camden when I used to live there. Or you might say, 'local nutter' generally to be found drunkenly haranguing random strangers about Prince Philip having Princess Di whacked and so on.

I wouldn't personally be inclined to build anything too substantial on him as a source.

all I'm suggesting is that he's a likely candidate for being the journalist who would have shown the victims photos in the early 90s.

given the number of articles he seems to have written on the subject, it seems reasonable to assume that he actually did get out to north wales to interview some of the victims before / while writing the articles.

Your description would also fit with the sort of journalist who might be able to show someone a picture and tell the person they were someone different to who they actually were, even accidentally. He'd certainly be someone who was chasing after the high level tories angle and might actually mention Lord McAlpine to them.

 

[caesar]

Name them.

Well that's exactly it, we don't know what they are, as the Conservatives likely have them or destroyed them, and both Regan, and his half brother Angus James (Wilson) have died, the latter in a car crash in Cyprus after going to see Asil Nadir to sell him compromising photos of a politician.

 

[elbows]

after going to see Asil Nadir to sell him compromising photos of a politician.

Where did you get that detail from? The version of the story I read had Angus going there to seek funding for Spiked magazine, in exchange for letting Nadir tell his side of the Poly Peck story. However the version you give is not incompatible with that.

 

[caesar]

Where did you get that detail from? The version of the story I read had Angus going there to seek funding for Spiked magazine, in exchange for letting Nadir tell his side of the Poly Peck story. However the version you give is not incompatible with that.

I found a link but I'm nervous about posting as it names the politician.

 

[butchersapron]

Well that's exactly it, we don't know what they are, as the Conservatives likely have them or destroyed them, and both Regan, and his half brother Angus James (Wilson) have died, the latter in a car crash in Cyprus after going to see Asil Nadir to sell him compromising photos of a politician.

go away

 

[free spirit]

Name them.

well I was trying not to given that he's the guy that finally nailed scallywag by screwing their printers, distributor etc. and his website details other cases he's taken to court and won as well, so he's obviously quite partial to taking legal action against those who accuse him of stuff.

 

[elbows]

Lets just assume any affidavits that may have existed are long gone, and therefore any hope of rebuilding this side of the story stems from any surviving victims. Hence my mentioning the sky interview with a victim the other day, it seems reasonable to assume that at least one of them is alive and prepared to talk to journalists. We can also assume that there are journalists out there who have remained aware of what Scallywag said at the time, and dont want this angle to go into obscurity again. Whether they can do anything about that though is questionable, they arent likely to name names especially given whats happened recently.

 

[butchersapron]

well I was trying not to given that he's the guy that finally nailed scallywag by screwing their printers, distributor etc. and his website details other cases he's taken to court and won as well, so he's obviously quite partial to taking legal action against those who accuse him of stuff.

What?

 

[caesar]

well I was trying not to given that he's the guy that finally nailed scallywag by screwing their printers, distributor etc. and his website details other cases he's taken to court and won as well, so he's obviously quite partial to taking legal action against those who accuse him of stuff.

I think he meant the Wales abuse victims that gave affidavits to Regan, obviously we don't know them as Regan never gave their names, but presumably they were on the affidavits.

 

[caesar]

go away

Uncalled for? I have a link of a letter posted by Regan, stating exactly that.

 

[free spirit]

I think he meant the Wales abuse victims that gave affidavits to Regan, obviously we don't know them as Regan never gave their names, but presumably they were on the affidavits.

oh ok, I thought he was referring to you naming the conservative guy I'd just deliberately not named.

you're probably right though.

 

[butchersapron]

Hi, new here, been reading for last few weeks, hope I can add something to discussion


Actually he didn't say that, the Guardian included that rather misleadingly, Meesham was asked the name of his abuser by a Times journalist, and he said it was Tom, which we now know is Thomas Kenyon, but the Times journalist didn't know that at the time, and connected it to the Conservative figure allegation.


These trips were likely disguised as normal days out, the recent guy on Sky News stated that in the daytime they saw all the London landmarks etc., probably late afternoon or early evening they got taken to the big house or flat, got changed and 'ready' for the guests. The guests may have been paying and, or, being filmed for bribery or extortion purposes. Someone asked why these men wouldn't just go to the homes- then they would be seen going there rather to just any of many London parties. I imagine the boys arrived hours before the clients arrived, and the men left in the night, and the boys left the following morning so noone outside would see them together.

Have you something to declare?

 

[caesar]

Have you something to declare?

Like what? Just been reading the site since the Savile allegations came up, and wanted to correct a point.

 

[butchersapron]

Like what? Just been reading the site since the Savile allegations came up, and wanted to correct a point.

just

 

[caesar]

Private Eye is an establishment journal that much is true. I knew a few people who worked for Scallywag, one of whom told me that he was not to ask questions about Julian Lewis's purchase of the contents of the magazine's office.

Wonder why that was?

Alfred 'Jimmie' McAlpine - liked his cars, and chaired construction company Sir Alfred McAlpine & sons, son of Lord Alfred McAlpine, and grandson of Sir Robert McAlpine. Now allegedly was a child abuser.

Lord (Alistair) McAlpine - Tory treasurer under Margaret Thatcher, and former(?) director of construction firm Sir Robert McAlpine & sons, and grandson of Sir Robert McAlpine. Now alleged by the Guardian not to be a child abuser but a victim of mistaken identity.


I can see how someone could get the 2 mixed up tbh, so the Guardian could be right.

That said, it seems a little odd that tory lord McAlpine would claim to have only been to the place once, unless the family was totally estranged from each other / disowned, as they are cousins... having said that, I suppose I only really see my cousins at their parents houses, so maybe that is plausible.

That photo of Alastair McAlpine is fairly recent, he is actually 34 years younger than Jimmie, so would have looked a lot different at the relevant time in the 70s.

 

[discokermit]

i thought it was cesar. got well confused there.

 

[albionism]

Why did Steve Messham feel the need to publicly apologies to **** ********,
when in fact he had never publicly named him?

 

[cesare]

i thought it was cesar. got well confused there.

Me? No, nothing to do with me.

 

[butchersapron]

Why did Steve Messham feel the need to publicly apologies to **** ********,
when in fact he had never publicly named him?

He did to the BIJ/Newsnight people and they proceeded on that basis.