How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[elbows]

A child abuse survivor who says she was raped and tortured by a well-known figure in London Fields is pleading with other victims to come forward.

The woman, who is now a successful academic, told the Gazette she was finally able to face up to the torment she suffered between 1973 and the early 1980s, and bring her attackers to justice.

‘Paedophile ring led by well-known figure abused London Fields kids in 1970s and 1980s’

 

[elbows]

BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said most of the complainants were male and were children at the time of the alleged abuse.

It is understood investigators have discounted some allegations and identified inconsistencies in the accounts of other complainants, our correspondent said.

However, detectives believe they have found grounds to suspect the former prime minster of an offence in about six cases for which he would probably have been interviewed under police caution if he was alive, he added.

Edward Heath abuse report expected

 

[19force8]

Edward Heath abuse report expected

This would be the same police force that sent detectives to interview Ian Hislop in the hope that as editor of Private Eye he might have some dirt on the grocer.

 

[DotCommunist]

so thats as far as we'll ever get with Heath then. When they say 'this will now be part of the wider inquiry into parliamentary HCSA' it sort of sounds like it may be revisited but I don't know.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Its a difficult one the heath case- there was always rumour with him when I was a kid/ youth, but it had that blurring of yore, where paedophilia and homosexuality were kinda interchangeable tropes for pretty much most people I knew ( yes, fucking hell, not that long ago either).

 

[elbows]

Its a difficult one the heath case- there was always rumour with him when I was a kid/ youth, but it had that blurring of yore, where paedophilia and homosexuality were kinda interchangeable tropes for pretty much most people I knew ( yes, fucking hell, not that long ago either).

Yes, and that phenomenon has been discussed here before, eg the time Phillip Schofield waved a little list at Cameron on tv and Cameron mentioned something about historical attitudes towards homosexuality. Cameron had a point, given that for a number of decades the Tories were described by some as having 'the largest closet in Europe', and that the old conflation of homosexuality and paedophilia was partially enabled by dodgy inequalities in things like the age of consent.

Great swathes of this thread were also involved with looking at the historical rumours about a number of tories, the nature of the rumours, the few people who were prepared to commit them to print and their agendas and levels of fact checking. In a few cases the possible involvement of security services in spreading rumours to serve agendas came up.

The baggage that came with some of the cases that had already been rumoured in the past left me wanting some 'brand new' revelations to come out rather than only rehashing what rumours were already in the public domain, but there havent been many examples of that happening when it comes to any possible high level political perpetrators. Thats not to say that I view cases that were rumoured in the past as less credible, since after all Savile triggered this stuff and there were no shortage of rumours for decades about him.

 

[elbows]

Not found a lot of stuff that is useful to quote here from the report, but here are a few bits and bobs.

8.15 Enquiries about vehicles and with Government Drivers (Chauffeurs)

1. 8.15.1 Sir Edward Heath was afforded a Government driver from immediately before his election as Prime Minister in 1970 almost continuously to the time of his death in 2005. The civil service operating procedures meant that Sir Edward Heath was normally driven by a regular driver, but pool drivers would assist when the regular driver was unavailable. His initial regular driver died some time ago but investigators from Operation Conifer were able to interview several other regular and pool drivers.
   
   
2. 8.15.2 One of the accounts given confirmed that Sir Edward Heath frequented a location where a victim disclosed that they had initially met Sir Edward Heath. This victim’s disclosure is one for which Sir Edward Heath would have been interviewed under caution if he were alive.

Since the 'completely asexual' thing has come up in his defence in the media again, I shall quote a bit that relates to that:

1. 8.28.1 The Operation Conifer investigation recognises that a person’s sexuality and the issue of whether or not they are sexually active is normally a private matter and is not an indicator of their propensity to commit sexual offences. During the investigation the issue became relevant as it was publicly8 implied that it was implausible for Sir Edward Heath to be an alleged suspect in child abuse related offences as he was considered to be ‘completely asexual’.
   
   
2. 8.28.2 Witnesses who were interviewed by investigators from Operation Conifer offered different opinions about Sir Edward Heath’s sexuality. However two witnesses, who have not disclosed abuse, provided evidence that he was sexually active with consenting adults during parts of his life.

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

More Cyril Smith revelations: MI5 knew prosecutors lied to press about Cyril Smith case, inquiry told

 

[elbows]

I'm watching the livestream of the inquiry. Evidence currently being given suggests Smith had considerable control over the selection & timing of children admitted to live at Cambridge House, via both his roles in council committees and the independent entity that ran the house. And the company he owned also employed some of the boys (it was a house for working boys).

 

[elbows]

Bloody inept!

The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse has admitted breaching its own procedures by publishing a victim's name despite his right to anonymity.

The man's name appeared on its website in the title of a document. The inquiry said it removed the name as soon as it was brought to its attention.

Since the inquiry began in March 2015, it has been alerted to seven breaches of anonymity and on four occasions, including this one, it reported itself to the Information Commissioner.

Child sex abuse inquiry breaches anonymity

 

[existentialist]

Bloody inept!





Child sex abuse inquiry breaches anonymity

Now this is where my nearest-to-conspiraloony tendencies start to emerge...

A proper, well-conducted, wholehearted and revealing inquiry would be a complete disaster to Those In Authority. Even though the sins they will be tried for will be decades-old sins, they will be found wanting, even if - and it's pretty evident we do still have a long way to go - they'd completely cleaned up their acts.

There are a lot of skeletons in a lot of cupboards, and I suspect that a lot of people know they were complicit, or turned a blind eye, or maybe just didn't know what to do, which has enabled abuse to flourish in particular areas.

So the best thing to do would be to scupper the inquiry from the start. You have to be seen to be holding one, but you set out to ensure that, at every turn, it succeeds in discrediting itself. You might do that indirectly, by ensuring (I can almost imagine Sir Humphrey explaining it) that your most inept, security-blunder-prone or just plain corruptible people are staffing it, and nudging them (deniably) in the right direction now and again. Or you do it directly, leaking stuff, making sure they hire the wrong person, along with regular briefings about the latest disaster.

After a while, the inquiry staggers into life, as it must, but 90% of survivors are staying away for fear of the next security blunder, they're on their seventeenth chair, and nobody has any faith in the outcome being taken remotely seriously, if one ever comes. Job done. Arses covered, can kicked down the road.

And no black helicopters, obvs.

 

[justin credible]

This thread needs more skeptical links IMO
I am extremely concerned about how batshit crazy conspiraloon nonsense has been treated as credible by various police services, mental health professionals and some journalists
excellent blog here, with a great post on some of the bonkers people making accusations about Ted Heath
Satanic Ritual Abuse and a Conspiracy Podcast: Some Notes on Some Connections

I am no fan of the tories but it seems to me that most of not all of the accusations against Heath were made by people who cherish delusions of Satanic Ritual Abuse, including former DCI Clive Driscoll, who nowadays spends his time working with the notorious Clinic for Dissociative Studies (founded by satan hunter in chief Valerie Sinason) and also defending convicted paedophiles such as the the unfortunately named Brian Pead
Money for sex’ therapist escapes jail (Bexley news site)

Brian Pead, Michael Bird meet retired DCI Clive Driscoll | Lambeth childabuse and cover up
Brian Pead writes to the Probation Service | Lambeth ... (links to conspiraloon site)

I think that the problem is that some abuse of children was ignored and covered up and that as a result a whole load of false allegations, many of them linked to conspiracy theories of Satanic Ritual Abuse, have been flying around.

People seem prone to hysteria in relation to sexual abuse allegations. We need to be extremely careful to be sceptical and evidence based in our research.
While it is important that allegations of child abuse are not covered up it is also important that people are considered innocent until proven guilty and that people are not subjected to trial by internet, especially in these days of fake news.

 

[elbows]

This thread did deal with such topics quite a number of times, back when it was more active generally.

Some other claims that were not directly connected to the satanic ritual abuse angle have also been debunked here over time. Admittedly sometimes in rather gentle ways due to not wanting to make an error in the opposite direction and on account of how damaged victims of abuse can be, including some who were abused but also made other claims of abuse that lacked basis in fact.

 

[EYEisBloke]

This may not be the right thread to ask and apologies if so but has the #pizzagate kerfuffle been discussed and if so was it completely debunked? If yes or on another thread signposting would be much appreciated.

 

[elbows]

This may not be the right thread to ask and apologies if so but has the #pizzagate kerfuffle been discussed and if so was it completely debunked? If yes or on another thread signposting would be much appreciated.

This is a thread about the UK in the UK subform, so no, its not the right place for Pizzagate.

Use the search feature on this forum and you'll see it mentioned in more than one thread in the world forum, eg threads dealing with Trump, the alt-right and Alex jones. I'm not sure whether it got a full debunking or just a lot of piss-taking because it was so obviously crap.

 

[EYEisBloke]

This is a thread about the UK in the UK subform, so no, its not the right place for Pizzagate.

Use the search feature on this forum and you'll see it mentioned in more than one thread in the world forum, eg threads dealing with Trump, the alt-right and Alex jones. I'm not sure whether it got a full debunking or just a lot of piss-taking because it was so obviously crap.

Thanks.

 

[justin credible]

This thread did deal with such topics quite a number of times, back when it was more active generally.

Some other claims that were not directly connected to the satanic ritual abuse angle have also been debunked here over time. Admittedly sometimes in rather gentle ways due to not wanting to make an error in the opposite direction and on account of how damaged victims of abuse can be, including some who were abused but also made other claims of abuse that lacked basis in fact.

sorry if my post came across as critical, I didn't intend it to be
I think that this is an interesting thread that has been fairly sceptical in focus but I do feel that it would benefit from a more thorough examination and debunking of some of the wilder conspiracies, especially those relating to SRA, especially given issues re fake news and interference in elections etc.

The whole SRA hoax in Hampstead hasn't really been examined or debunked here in any detail and given that many of the promoters of that hoax (mostly if not exclusively an interesting mix of faux evangelical Christians and new age hippy Hitler apologists) also promote PizzaGate and the Hollie Grieg hoax and that all of these hoaxes claim that the "powers that be" including corrupt politicians, royalty, police, social services etc. are blood drinking baby munching Satanists who belong to a secret elite cabal that is trying to take over the world, I believe that such claims should quite correctly be included in this thread. and debunked, obviously.

You even get people posting on here asking seriously if PizzaGate has been debunked.

PizzaGate is relevant to this thread inasmuch as it is one of a massive number of hoaxes claiming to prove the existence of elite paedophile rings involving blood drinking, baby munching, child sacrificing paedophile Satanists. Many of those allegations have targeted innocent people in the UK and are part of a wider cultural milieu in which fake allegations of child abuse have been made that make our entire culture appear to be built on a foundation of appalling child abuse.

One person who immediately comes to mind is the extremely dodgy Camila Batmanghelidjh, a long time associate of Valerie Sinason and someone who, for many years moved in similar social circles. I have taken the time to read Batmanghelidjh's book, Shattered Lives and so much of it is very obviously completely made up and exaggerated bullshit that it's amazing that she wasn't pulled up on it years before she was. Who wrote the blurb on the reverse of the book? No other than Valerie Sinason

‘This wonderful bombshell of a book is a sustained, honourable and timely paean of fury on behalf of the children whose murdered childhood haunts and damages us all. In these circumstances “neutrality is offensive” from all professionals and indeed adults who disguise the real level of pain they witness in children for the sake of easier research, policy, relationship with peers and superiors.’
– Valerie Sinason, PhD, MACP, MInst Psychoanal, FRSA, child psychotherapist and adultpsychoanalyst

Batmaghelidgjh talking shit to Voice of Russia radio

She says trained as a psychotherapist (she didn't complete her training to the point where she was accredited though). She claims that "the average age which prostitution starts in Britain for girls in 12" - where the hell does she get that figure from? Just total bollocks. She also waffles on about "brain research" Kids Co carried out on children, this research was extremely controversial, much of it conducted without proper consent of the children and / or their families.

Anyone listening to this interview could easily end up believing that the UK is a nation of paedophiles who care more about their dogs than their children. Batmanghelidjh says "There is something about the British psyche that struggles with vulnerability and that's why I think they struggle with loving and cherishing children."

Don't missunderstand me. I am not suggesting that conspiracies to sexually abuse children never happen, or that coverups do not happen. I have bitter personal experience of organised child sexual exploitation and of it being covered up. My concern is that resources that should be spent on investigating real child abuse are spent on investigating allegations that Ted Heath was a Satanist. The situation is insane.

some links that deserve serious examination that are relevant to this thread

FALSE: Comet Ping Pong Pizzeria Home to Child Abuse Ring Led by Hillary Clinton

Russians 'set up shop' in Scotland to force new independence vote link includes screenshots linking Russian FB trolls to equating Hilary Clinton to Satan

More links to follow soon but am in a library and have to go now

 

[existentialist]

Not necessarily a "high level paedophile ring", but this story implies some fairly high-level collusion within the Roman Catholic establishment....

Revealed: monk who abused children on Caldey Island for decades

 

[justin credible]

Not necessarily a "high level paedophile ring", but this story implies some fairly high-level collusion within the Roman Catholic establishment....

Revealed: monk who abused children on Caldey Island for decades

Horrible, but unfortunately not uncommon.

Any organisation or institution in which some individuals are given a highly idealised and elevated status provide opportunities for predators to abuse the vulnerable. Whether it is religious / quasi-religious organisations, personal development cults, the entertainment industry, politics or businesses people in positions of power who possess psychopathic tendencies will use their privileged position to indulge their proclivities.

The dynamics of power usually mean that abusers are surrounded by people whose career and or personal welfare is dependent on pleasing the person in charge. These dynamics can be both very powerful and very unconscious so that people feel that they cannot say no / cannot make a fuss / cannot even speak about what is happening. Witnesses of all kinds of evil abuses who speak out and take action are IME in the minority rather than the majority.

This is not just because people are cowards or selfish; powerful unconscious dynamics come into play that effectively make people feel complicit and unable to speak.

Families are a microcosmic version of large institutions and when the sexual abuse of children happens within families it is not uncommon for everyone in the family to know what is going on but for there to be an unspoken rule of silence, a kind of Omertà. This was how it was in my family where all the children were sexually abused. As I grew older my father's attentions shifted to my brother and my father would spend hours in my brother's bedroom of an evening. Nobody in the family ever spoke about it. None of us would have dreamed of entering my brother's bedroom. The powerful unconscious dynamics persist to the present day and one of my sisters still clings on to the ridiculous idea that my father was simply performing unusual medical examinations upon us. I believe that somewhere deep inside herself she knows the truth; that it is not usual for fathers to spend hours of an evening intimately examining his children's most private body parts. For all kinds of reasons she prefers to believe a ridiculous lie and nothing anyone says will shift her point of view.

I have experienced the same thing in an organisation where a (subsequently convicted) paedophile was very obviously sexually abusing vulnerable children in his care. The lead person in the organisation would have faced immense financial difficulties and possibly a fraud investigation had he gone to the police regarding the multiple indications of child sexual abuse that were obvious for anyone to see. So he decided that the abuse allegations were a conspiracy to destroy his business and once he had decided upon this strategy nothing would persuade him otherwise.

Human beings are complex highly evolved apes with a tendency towards blaming others, shifting responsibility and abusing power. I don't believe it is surprising that lots of abuses of children are covered up, I think it is more surprising when some individuals report child abuse to the police, even if it risks their livelihood to do so. I'm thinking of the owner of an IT business who, upon finding appalling images of the sexual abuse of infants and toddlers on his employees work computer, took them straight to the police. The poor man was eventually bankrupted (IMMIC) through just doing the right thing. His actions resulted in the conviction of Vanessa George and the monstrous child abusers who were part of the same paedophile ring. The business owner's actions undoubtedly saved many young children from being abused and put some scary people in jail where they belonged but because the police seized his computers for an extended period and he received no compensation he went out of business. He should have received a medal IMO. The scary thing is to wonder who many people discover evidence of CSA and don't report it, or don't even allow themselves to think about it, because to do so would be to put themselves in a precarious situation.

Just thinking aloud really

 

[justin credible]

I promised you some links relevant to this thread and here is an important one

this is a link to the excellent Hoaxed Research blog that was started by victims of a cruel and disgusting hoax that saw countless innocent families in Hampstead targeted by vigilantes and trolls who believed in a non-existent baby eating Satanic cult consisting of police, social workers VIPs etc.

this link explores some of the main players involved in both the Hampstead hoax and the Hollie Grieg hoax and also into the farcical investigations that were Operation Conifer
‘Sexing up’ the Hollie Hoax: The precursor to Hoaxtead

have to go for now but more soon

 

[bogbrush]

The guest book/ reception book for the 'Elm Guest House' should have settled that question finally. Nothing much that wasn't known already, from the time of Ronnie Kray and Lord Boothby onwards. If you remember, we have not so long ago had an ex-home secretary buried in an unmarked grave because of it.

 

[teqniq]

Theresa May and Amber Rudd suppress Westminster child abuse documents for national security reasons

 

[existentialist]

Theresa May and Amber Rudd suppress Westminster child abuse documents for national security reasons

It's very hard not to think that this is a whitewash. I struggle to think of a genuine "national security" reason why the facts behind Cyril Smith's epredations should not be held up for all to see. We all recognise that a lot of very flimsy excuses have been trotted out over the decades for maintaining the omerta around child sexual abuse, but it seems the Government want to have their cake and eat it, insisting to us that things have changed, while still falling back on the same shabby arguments for not actually doing anything any differently.

Which, of course, continues to send the message to offending MPs and other "establishment" types that there will always be a veil behind which they can hide.

 

[teqniq]

I stopped thinking of it as anything but a whitewash quite some time ago.

 

[elbows]

I looked it up in Hansard because the response was missing from the text part of that article. I know it was included in the video but I don't know if everyone will look at that.

Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)
Last month in this House, the Home Secretary told me that some papers would be withheld from the Cyril Smith inquiry for reasons of national security. This week, the Prime Minister has written to me to say:

“We are clear that the work of the security services will not prevent information being shared with other such inquiries.”

Will the Home Secretary confirm, for the survivors of Cyril Smith who have waited for justice for decades, that she was wrong and that the Prime Minister is right?

Amber Rudd

I am happy to confirm that the Prime Minister is always right. I will certainly look carefully at the letter the hon. Lady has received to ensure that we comply with it.

Topical Questions - Hansard Online

 

[justin credible]

Very interesting article in Rolling Stone, it is specifically about the Pizzagate hoax but is highly relevant, IMO / IME to fake news conspiracies here in the UK especially Operation Conifer and some of the allegations re Ted Heath, pushed for time right now but more later.

Pizzagate: Anatomy of a Fake News Scandal

 

[elbows]

Numerous harrowing tales of abuse and coverup within religion-related institutions have been covered by the independent inquiry and Scottish inquiry of late.

Girl 'abused by priest had arm broken'

An eight-year-old girl had her arm broken by a nun after she discovered the child was being sexually abused by a priest, an inquiry has heard.

Theresa Tolmie-McGrane told the Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry she hoped the nun would protect her after walking in on the assault at Smyllum Park orphanage in 1970.

But she said she was instead verbally abused and thrown at a wall.

She said she then beaten and threatened with having her other arm broken.

Boy 'abused' by head of Catholic school

A head teacher of a Catholic boarding school invited a young pupil into his study and then sexually abused him, the inquiry into child abuse has heard.

The hearing heard the boy was told to pretend to go to bed in his dorm at Ampleforth College, in North Yorkshire, and then to get up and go to his study.

Two other ex-pupils also talked about being abused and beaten at the school.

The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse is currently examining abuse in the Roman Catholic Church.

The third day of hearings into allegations involving the Church examined abuse at Ampleforth College, a private school run by Benedictine monks.

Priest 'tried to control' abuse inquiry

Police raised concerns that the head of a Roman Catholic boarding school tried to "control" a child sex abuse investigation, an inquiry has heard.

A former North Yorkshire detective said officers were "excluded" from inquiries at Ampleforth College in 1995 and 2002.

But former head teacher Father Leo Chamberlain denied influencing a boy's parents during a phone call in 1995.

He told the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse there had been "no skulduggery".

An earlier hearing was told the former head teacher was warned about employing Fr Piers Grant-Ferris - who was later jailed for abusing boys.

Grant-Ferris, who the pupils had nicknamed "Pervy Piers", was convicted of 20 counts of indecent assault in 2006.

The inquiry was shown a letter by a psychologist employed by the school, Elizabeth Mann, who wrote in 2003 that Grant-Ferris and a second monk posed a risk to pupils.

At the time, Fr Chamberlain said he thought it was safe to employ Grant-Ferris in the abbey's shop, which he had described as "something of a goldfish bowl", regularly visited by guests and students.

He told the inquiry: "Because it was a very visible place I thought well, we could probably make it work. But I think I could have been wrong about that."

 

[existentialist]

An earlier hearing was told the former head teacher was warned about employing Fr Piers Grant-Ferris - who was later jailed for abusing boys.

Grant-Ferris, who the pupils had nicknamed "Pervy Piers", was convicted of 20 counts of indecent assault in 2006.

The inquiry was shown a letter by a psychologist employed by the school, Elizabeth Mann, who wrote in 2003 that Grant-Ferris and a second monk posed a risk to pupils.

At the time, Fr Chamberlain said he thought it was safe to employ Grant-Ferris in the abbey's shop, which he had described as "something of a goldfish bowl", regularly visited by guests and students.

He told the inquiry: "Because it was a very visible place I thought well, we could probably make it work. But I think I could have been wrong about that."

My first job after qualifying as a counsellor was in schools counselling, and the service was set up specifically to avoid this kind of conflict. Counsellors were employed independently of schools, per the Clwych inquiry's recommendations, by the local authority. While I am not aware of any specific instances where that independence was directly responsible for abuses being disclosed, there was no doubt that it gave us a freedom, should it have been necessary, to report suspicious goings-on without having to worry about the school shutting us down.

Sadly, following a series of funding cuts, a lot of the responsibility for supporting the service ended up devolving onto individual schools, with designated days of provision being funded directly by the school. At which point I got the local authority to make me an offer I couldn't refuse, and accepted the (moderately generous) redundancy settlement they made.

But I fear for the well-being of any children who might be at risk within the schools environment, because - regardless of the professionalism of the rest of the team who remained - I know that they will always have to factor in the impact that any boat-rocking they might engage in will have on their financial situation.

In my view, it should be a legislative imperative that any organisation with power or control over young people should be obliged to have an independently-funded person available to all of those young people. Which was definitely in the spirit of the Clwych Inquiry's recommendations, if not the letter.

The Clywch Inquiry was set up following the death by suicide of John Owen, a schoolteacher who killed himself after police inquiries were resumed to investigate his prolific sexual abuse of adolescents in a secondary school in South Wales throughout the 1980s and '90s. https://www.childcomwales.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Clywch.pdf

 

[cupid_stunt]

 

[teqniq]

Sent me a pm about it too. Why, I wonder?