Horizon: Should I eat Meat?

[ddraig]

so?

 

[cesare]

I think it would be easier to be a vegan than a veggie. The thought of cheese and dairy laden veggie meals makes me feel nauseous

 

[Spymaster]

this is it. we all draw our lines in different places.
to some a life is a life and that's it
to most there are lives that are more important than others which gives us the pet issue

I agree. But those lines are illogical.

I was out with 5t3IIa the other day and she went out of her way to pick up a stranded worm from the pavement and put it into the flowerbed.

Then we went for a burger.

 

[joustmaster]

Being a vegan cuts out foods. So its harder to get the right nutrition.
It doesn't mean a vegan is less healthy. Just that its more effort to cover all your needs.

And the argument that a prawn isn't an animal is just daft.
Eating seafood is the same as eating a steak.

 

[Citizen66]

so?

There wasn't going to be a follow on sentence.

 

[ddraig]

I think it would be easier to be a vegan than a veggie. The thought of cheese and dairy laden veggie meals makes me feel nauseous

i sort of see what you mean but would be difficult to go out for food, have takeaways and eat on holiday if not in major cities etc

 

[Citizen66]

I think it would be easier to be a vegan than a veggie. The thought of cheese and dairy laden veggie meals makes me feel nauseous

I couldn't be vegan. I do like the odd bit of weetabix.

 

[ddraig]

yay! we're all in agreement
got to do some work today and not do this all day again

 

[gentlegreen]

I couldn't be vegan. I do like the odd bit of weetabix.

Whither soya milk ?

 

[Citizen66]

Whither soya milk ?

Is that nice on scones?

 

[ddraig]

i can't do soya mile on cereals so don't do cereals
partner does but then they also have fruit juice with their cereal if no soya milk, the weirdo
ych a fi

 

[cesare]

i sort of see what you mean but would be difficult to go out for food, have takeaways and eat on holiday if not in major cities etc

I suppose it depends where in the world you are/go on holiday. I don't think it would be too hard in the Mediterranean/Middle East/Far East. It'd be harder in Northern Europe and the UK.

 

[mr steev]

I think it would be easier to be a vegan than a veggie. The thought of cheese and dairy laden veggie meals makes me feel nauseous

Obvioulsy veggies can eat vegan meals too. Everything really doesn't have to be dairy laden

 

[ddraig]

I suppose it depends where in the world you are/go on holiday. I don't think it would be too hard in the Mediterranean/Middle East/Far East. It'd be harder in Northern Europe and the UK.

yup
and it is so much better these days than even a few years ago
more decent vegan places in Barca of a decent price range than last time i was in London for example

 

[cesare]

i can't do soya mile on cereals so don't do cereals
partner does but then they also have fruit juice with their cereal if no soya milk, the weirdo
ych a fi

I don't have cereals cos I don't like the taste of milk. Porridge made with water and maple syrup added is nice.

That oat milk is ok - I don't like soya milk much.

 

[cesare]

Obvioulsy veggies can eat vegan meals too. Everything really doesn't have to be dairy laden

I know it doesn't have to be. I was expressing a personal preference rather than generalising. I find dairy hard to digest so if I wasn't lazy I'd be far more likely to become a vegan than a vegetarian.

 

[Citizen66]

That oat milk is ok - I don't like soya milk much.

Have you tried rice milk? I found that nicer than soya.

 

[gentlegreen]

Is that nice on scones?

It's nice on everything.

When I first bought it back in the 80s, it must have been concentrated - I seem to remember diluting it.

 

[cesare]

Have you tried rice milk? I found that nicer than soya.

No I haven't. I'd like to try almond milk too. Part of the laziness is not getting round to it

 

[weltweit]

I thought the program was interesting but not so conclusive. It was interesting that after eating a high meat diet for just a month the presenter's cholesterol had gone up and that his fat level had also raised I think by a couple of kilos. Frustrating though that the US survey and the European one did not match in results terms.

The conclusion he came to, to have a mixed diet, was boringly predictable.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Do pigs have a cognisant concept of "future"? Do they actively look forward to future good experiences? If not then it doesn't matter that they're deprived of them. If they do then once again, I see them as lesser beings to the extent that my pleasure and convenience in eating or wearing them, to me, is paramount to those future experiences.

As far as the raising of the pig in your above scenario is concerned I just don't agree at all. I am raising the pig specifically to be killed for meat. My duty of care to it exists only whilst it's alive and places me under no obligation whatsoever to maintain its welfare beyond the point necessary for its slaughter.

I see you've hedged your bets there in that first paragraph! I don't pretend to be an expert in animal psychology but most of the evidence seems to that pigs are pretty smart and do have some concept of the future. However, even if they don't (I can hedge my bets too!) the idea that it is therefore okay to deprive them of future good experiences that they are not aware of seems a bit strange. If I knew that your mates had thrown you a surprise birthday party at your house and I deliberately diverted you away from the party, I have wronged you by depriving you of that experience even though you had no knowledge of it.

But, ultimately, that's not the nub of your stance. Your position rests upon your belief that pigs are 'lesser beings'. I disagree entirely. To me to discard or minimise the interests of a being purely on the basis of its species is as arbitrary as racism or sexism. For me all beings with similar interests deserve to have those interests protected equally. This is not to say that all beings should be treated equally, but that equal weight should be placed on their similar interests irrespective of species. When those interests are fundamental enough they should be protected as rights. I believe that all sentient creatures should have fundamental rights to life and freedom from suffering that can't be trumped by things like mere human pleasure, convenience or entertainment. To exclude or minimise the interests of other beings merely because they are of a different species requires a good explanation, one that I have yet to be presented with.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

When a vegan chef creates a dish that tastes like steak, I'll convert!

Was never a huge fan of steak myself, too heavy on the digestive system. But its amazing how meaty a portobello mushroom can taste, especially with the right seasoning etc.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

No I haven't. I'd like to try almond milk too. Part of the laziness is not getting round to it

Almond milk is my personal favourite. Its particularly great for porridge. You can easily make your own too. You just need some almonds, some water and a cheese cloth.

 

[cesare]

Almond milk is my personal favourite. Its particularly great for porridge. You can easily make your own too. You just need some almonds, some water and a cheese cloth.

Ground almonds? How long do you steep them for? Is muslin the same as a cheesecloth? Cheers for the suggestion

 

[joustmaster]

But, ultimately, that's not the nub of your stance. Your position rests upon your belief that pigs are 'lesser beings'. I disagree entirely. To me to discard or minimise the interests of a being purely on the basis of its species is as arbitrary as racism or sexism. For me all beings with similar interests deserve to have those interests protected equally. This is not to say that all beings should be treated equally, but that equal weight should be placed on their similar interests irrespective of species. When those interests are fundamental enough they should be protected as rights. I believe that all sentient creatures should have fundamental rights to life and freedom from suffering that can't be trumped by things like mere human pleasure, convenience or entertainment. To exclude or minimise the interests of other beings merely because they are of a different species requires a good explanation, one that I have yet to be presented with.

Well, thats exactly the difference.
I find that statement so silly that it actually made me laugh.
Each to their own though.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Ground almonds? How long do you steep them for? Is muslin the same as a cheesecloth? Cheers for the suggestion

No, whole almonds. See:

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Well, thats exactly the difference.
I find that statement so silly that it actually made me laugh.
Each to their own though.

Yeah, but thing is its attitudes like yours that are the problem. You've admitted on the thread that you're not really bothered if animals suffer for your pleasure. Yet its my position that says inflicting avoidable suffering is wrong that's the silly one apparently.

 

[Spymaster]

But, ultimately, that's not the nub of your stance. Your position rests upon your belief that pigs are 'lesser beings'. I disagree entirely. To me to discard or minimise the interests of a being purely on the basis of its species is as arbitrary as racism or sexism. For me all beings with similar interests deserve to have those interests protected equally. This is not to say that all beings should be treated equally, but that equal weight should be placed on their similar interests irrespective of species. When those interests are fundamental enough they should be protected as rights. I believe that all sentient creatures should have fundamental rights to life and freedom from suffering that can't be trumped by things like mere human pleasure, convenience or entertainment. To exclude or minimise the interests of other beings merely because they are of a different species requires a good explanation, one that I have yet to be presented with.

What do you mean by beings with similar interests irrespective of species?

I've a feeling you may be hedging again!

 

[Roadkill]

But, ultimately, that's not the nub of your stance. Your position rests upon your belief that pigs are 'lesser beings'. I disagree entirely. To me to discard or minimise the interests of a being purely on the basis of its species is as arbitrary as racism or sexism. For me all beings with similar interests deserve to have those interests protected equally. This is not to say that all beings should be treated equally, but that equal weight should be placed on their similar interests irrespective of species. When those interests are fundamental enough they should be protected as rights. I believe that all sentient creatures should have fundamental rights to life and freedom from suffering that can't be trumped by things like mere human pleasure, convenience or entertainment. To exclude or minimise the interests of other beings merely because they are of a different species requires a good explanation, one that I have yet to be presented with.

If you found you had an infestation of rats in your house, what would you do about it?

 

[DrRingDing]

If you found you had an infestation of rats in your house, what would you do about it?

If your neighbour was torturing their dog, what would you do?