Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[mojo pixy]

They may get their news from wireless or TV and it wasn't covered or in my experience a brief mention as part of a larger story. It could be a pre-held assumption correct or otherwise. It may not be antisemitism. You were right to raise it though hence my initial response.

Perhaps there is an issue around prominence? You searched for it and found it and I'm sure there are reports on lots of things you could find if you search for it you wouldn't see otherwise. I'm not saying that's definitely the case here. I subscribe to a few daily newsletters. The BBC one doesn't mention the West Bank and hasn't for a few days. It may do in some of the links given but not in the letter, headlines or link titles. The Guardian by contrast had mentioned it and today made it the focus of its Today in Focus newsletter. The BBC does currently have a story on it on its News homepage though. It is quite a good article on the IDF operation, though not settler violence, if you read the whole thing. If you only read the headline or to the second picture it gives a very one sided view of the situation. An issue of framing I'd argue. This isn't because of Jews running the media. If they were they'd be doing a shit job as one of the articles you posted that I've read is framed quite differently. How prominent on the site it was I don't know. It is currently a couple pages back on the World subheading but it is old news. I'd suggest that sometimes an Israeli viewpoint is favoured by parts of the media because they are an ally rather than because of some Jewish influence.

Could be. It doesn't really explain the posting of something that was already wrong at the time, could have been checked, and looks like a declaration from an assumption (because it certainly wasn't a declaration from facts)

This isn't about 'what was not reported', or what was soft-soaped, spun or minimised. The reports are there, they were already there. The fact that for some here I'm the bad guy (the fact that some posters apparently can't help focussing on me rather than what I'm actually posting) is telling as fuck!

Accusations? We got 'em, come n get 'em while they hawt

 

[teqniq]

I think the premise of this article may well be right. The amount of times I have seen Palestinians posting on social media 'we will not forgive, we will not forget' is considerable:

Gaza ceasefire may hold, but a new generation is radicalised

Hamas now has a long-term flow of loyal supporters after so many Palestinians experienced death and devastation

www.opendemocracy.net

 

[Pickman's model]

I think the premise of this article may well be right. The amount of times I have seen Palestinians posting on social media 'we will not forgive, we will not forget' is considerable:

Gaza ceasefire may hold, but a new generation is radicalised

Hamas now has a long-term flow of loyal supporters after so many Palestinians experienced death and devastation

www.opendemocracy.net

i think it's wrong though to limit the impact to simply palestinians. many thousands of people in the middle east and further afield will have been radicalised by this, and actions against israeli interests will also, i think, take place far from palestine.

 

[teqniq]

i think it's wrong though to limit the impact to simply palestinians. many thousands of people in the middle east and further afield will have been radicalised by this, and actions against israeli interests will also, i think, take place far from palestine.

Indeed so. I thought to add to the post I will not forgive or forget and I know other people who feel the same way so I am adding it here. E2a In all this neither will I forgive or forget the actions and inactions of the last Tory government and the present Labour one. Also now I am seeing on social media that some sort of deal may have been done between Netanyahu and Smotritch over annexation of the West Bank. If true it would explain why he did not resign alongside Ben-Gvir.

 

[Gramsci]

I actually accused someone of posting something that was obviously wrong and would have been easy to check in a few seconds. I speculated as to what the motivation for that kind of obvious mis-post could be. So far the usual suspects have popped up to tell me I'm wrong, that my mind is twisted, I'm posting nonsense, and that I should take it back.

We're doing great today on the left guys.

This is nothing to do with the left or the usual suspects.

You pointed out a factually incorrect post.

I pointed out that said poster had made no reference to Jews controlling media. Which is factually correct post by me. Unless you can prove otherwise.

So far you haven't

 

[Gramsci]

I think the premise of this article may well be right. The amount of times I have seen Palestinians posting on social media 'we will not forgive, we will not forget' is considerable:

Gaza ceasefire may hold, but a new generation is radicalised

Hamas now has a long-term flow of loyal supporters after so many Palestinians experienced death and devastation

www.opendemocracy.net

What the article doesn't go into is PA also attacking/ attempting to arrest members of Jenin Brigades. Who comprise local Palestinians from variety of political backgrounds in West Bank.

Abbas has already been saying that PA wants to run Gaza. Hamas made a show of force when hostages were handed over. As article says it appears that Hamas are far from being defeated.

What I'm saying is that there is already fighting between different Palestinian factions for who will come out on top. A potential for limited civil war.

With PA willing to work with Israel security forces to suppress Jenin Brigades.

 

[oryx]

I think you should withdraw that accusation.

So do I, it would be a good idea.

Will respond in full later.

 

[tim]

Your accusing a poster of anti semitism with no evidence. I think you should withdraw that accusation.

You accused me of being Hasbara without any evidence. You have never withdrawn that accusation.

You are disingenuous.

Dont tell me what is realistic.

I tell you what your an apologist for Zionism who pretends to be oh so realistic.

TBH Im wondering if your some kind of Hasbara bot

 

[teqniq]

It would seem that the 'ceasefire' is not being honoured by the Israelis, at least not everywhere:

 

[Gramsci]

I think the premise of this article may well be right. The amount of times I have seen Palestinians posting on social media 'we will not forgive, we will not forget' is considerable:

Gaza ceasefire may hold, but a new generation is radicalised

Hamas now has a long-term flow of loyal supporters after so many Palestinians experienced death and devastation

www.opendemocracy.net

Paul Rogers is good on some things.

Thinking on his article and it unfortunately gives impression that the only way people as ,you rightly say will not forgive or forget , i to be "radicalised" to join extremist Islamic groups.

Where he equates Al Qaeda with Hamas. Al Qaeda see Muslim Brotherhood as not proper Muslim revolutionaries. In fact under Al Qaeda Muslim brotherhood group like Hamas would not last long. It saw them this way in Syria.

Palestinian "terrorism" has been done by secular and more Islamic groups. But goal has been not attack on West but nationalist.

The Al Qaeda versions of Islamic politics did not get wide support amongst a mainly nationalist Palestinian community.

I've been reading this on Syria

The Impossible Revolution | Hurst Publishers

The intellectual voice of the Syrian revolution recounts the devastating impact of the Assads' tyrannical rule. Foreword by Robin Yassin-Kassab Translated by Ibtihal Mahmood

www.hurstpublishers.com

The writer points out that the Syrian revolution was a mixed coalition. Including some more socially conservative Islamic elements.

They were not however Al Qaeda / Isis. These came later when violence of Assad regime and lack of support from the west drove people to support the politics on Nihilism- Al Nusra and Isis. Reject everything.

I do not see that in Palestine. But the same mechanism could apply. An oppressive violent regime - Israel- which will not compromise up against a population ( Palestinians) who wont go.

An issue I have with Rogers is that given the situation Palestinians are in violent extremism might increase in future. But its not necessarily nihilistic. Its about ( going back to the book on Syria) people wanting a decent life.

So wanting right to live on their land, right to self determination , right to oppose occupation and right to return and live on land they were expelled from.

A life with dignity.

In my book wanting this is not about the extremist politics of Al Qaeda- a politics of Nihilism- but one rooted in the actual needs of Palestinians.

It can be to easily labeled as extremist. But in reality its not. And it does not help to place it in with Islamic extremism. But to see it as understandable and rational aspiration of the Palestinian people

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The fact that for some here I'm the bad guy (the fact that some posters apparently can't help focussing on me rather than what I'm actually posting) is telling as fuck!

You accused another poster of antisemitism. There is no other way to read that original reply to oryx. This is very precisely focusing on what you actually posted, which was this:

I don't know, something something jews in charge of the media? Whatever

 

[mojo pixy]

Yeah well I'm a (((dirty liar))) so what do you expect I'm obviously part of the conspiracy, tricking decent people into looking bad etc so let's make it about me being a cunt rather than think about the assumptions that might lead someone to say the BBC wasn't reporting on Israeli brutality when it in fact was, and might lead a bunch of others to apparently uncritically 'like' that post and nobody to correct it for a whole day.

 

[oryx]

Apart from this from 10/1

Israeli settlers in West Bank see Trump win as chance to push on

Israeli settlers in the occupied West Bank see opportunity in Trump's election, but Palestinians are concerned.

www.bbc.co.uk

this from Tuesday and yesterday

At least 10 Palestinians killed as Israel launches operation in Jenin

Israel's prime minister says the "extensive" operation aims to "defeat terrorism" in the West Bank city.

www.bbc.co.uk

and this from today

Israel says it killed Palestinian attackers as Jenin raid continues

Twelve Palestinians are reported to have been killed since the operation began in Jenin on Tuesday.

www.bbc.co.uk

I don't know, something something jews in charge of the media? Whatever

The first article you quote was from 10 January.

The second was from 21 January after I posted.

The third is from today.

I am not sure what your point is, mojo pixy , apart from smearing people with lies because you don't like what they're saying.

Thanks to everyone who's supported me

 

[mojo pixy]

The first article you quote was from 10 January.

Less than a fortnight before your post, and on the very matter of Israeli criminality, but OK let's say that's not what you meant.

The second was from 21 January after I posted.

You posted on 22nd January, the 21st is generally treated as falling before the 22nd? Plus the report had been updated on the 22nd, the same day you posted that such reports didn't exist.

The third is from today.

To emphasise the point that you were wrong yesterday and still are today. Which you aren't acknowledging, even as you high five the front row.

Thanks to everyone who's supported me

 

[oryx]

I've put you on ignore (you're the first ever poster I've done this to, BTW) and reported your previous post for malicious allegations.

Let's see what happens

 

[mojo pixy]

Good for you.

Maybe if you'd explain why you assumed the BBC wasn't reporting something bad about israel when it was, and why you still won't acknowledge that as a mistake, and instead block me and apparently try to get me silenced by the mod-king, we might live in a happier, more reasonable world than we do.

 

[Gramsci]

The BBC's Civil War Over Gaza

The BBC is facing an internal revolt over its reporting on Israel’s war on Gaza. Owen Jones investigates.

www.dropsitenews.com

One staffer believes the BBC has largely sought to align its journalism with the UK government’s foreign policy. As far as top brass is concerned, “Israel is treated like Ukraine, Palestinians like Russia,” the staffer said. If a journalist tries to challenge the double standards applied to Russia and Ukraine, managers are baffled, treating both Ukraine and Israel as British allies. “Look at headlines on what Russia does in Ukraine. But the headlines around Gaza are generally entirely unclear, and are never clear that Israel has been the perpetrator.”

Read Owen Jones in depth look at BBC coverage. He interviewed BBC journalists ( anonymously ) who have been raising concerns with management for a while about BBC coverage. Also includes section on analysis of how Israeli deaths and Palestinian deaths were covered. With Palestinians being given less value.

There is section , quite technical for me, on how stories get either publicised widely or end up in back pages so to speak. With some stories being able to be found on the news website if one looks enough. But do not make it to say the Six O Clock news.

So its not always a case that's BBC do not cover specific news. Its also about whether it makes it to front page outlet like Six O clack news

One particular member of management with editorial control does come in for a lot of criticism by other BBC journalists. Pro Israel and its not a secret.

BBC management held series of listening sessions with journalists. But the management treated those journalists complaining about coverage as having emotional issues. In need of "support". Whilst the journalists were saying no its about proper impartiality in reporting. And saying things how they are even if that does not look good for IDF/ Israel

So is BBC all bad? No. Does management take on board issues brought up by those on shopfloor? No. Its the usual I feel your pain how about some counselling? Making it a personal issue. Not that a significant number of journalists have collective concerns.

I'm more of the opinion that senior management have the so called sensible mainstream views of most of establishment. As shown in the quote above. That trickles down into what is acceptable and not acceptable to give coverage to. And the emphasis it gets in the news organisation as a whole.

What's been difficult for them as attack on Gaza went on month after month was that accurate plain speaking was something mge could not handle. Despite decent journalists at BBC wanting more to the point coverage with headlines making clear who perpetrators were when Palestinians were killed. The case of the autistic boy mauled by IDF dogs was one case mentioned.

So its not a conspiracy or that the BBC is controlled by Jews.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yep. The bit of the BBC I pay attention to, World Service, is probably the best bit regarding the range of views and viewpoints it gives airtime to, but the bias has been painful. It's not even that individual pieces are so bad in isolation, but for a long time, any story about suffering Palestinians has needed to be 'balanced' by a piece about Israeli suffering coming directly before or after it. As if these were two equal sides. And they still regularly broadcast the Israeli government's/IDF's official explanations for the latest murders (anti-terrorism operations, etc) without any editorial comment, as if these were reasonable, trustworthy sources.

The fact that they have never had any reporters in Gaza is telliing, I think. It really shows. Compare and contrast with the clear outrage and disgust felt by Al Jazeera, many of whose reporters have been murdered by Israel. The BBC can do that anger and disgust when reporting about Ukraine. About Gaza, not so much.

 

[Pickman's model]

.

 

[mojo pixy]

Ffs the story was reported

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

pesky children terrorists.
One friend of mine is so haunted by his time in the IDF he can’t sleep. Smokes huge amounts of hash. Openly admits to be racist because that’s what gets drilled into your brain.
Traumatized to fuck. As we all are.


What are you even defending any more?

Fuck off calling me racist LDC

 

[HeAthen]

The BBC's Civil War Over Gaza

The BBC is facing an internal revolt over its reporting on Israel’s war on Gaza. Owen Jones investigates.

www.dropsitenews.com

Read Owen Jones in depth look at BBC coverage. He interviewed BBC journalists ( anonymously ) who have been raising concerns with management for a while about BBC coverage. Also includes section on analysis of how Israeli deaths and Palestinian deaths were covered. With Palestinians being given less value.

There is section , quite technical for me, on how stories get either publicised widely or end up in back pages so to speak. With some stories being able to be found on the news website if one looks enough. But do not make it to say the Six O Clock news.

So its not always a case that's BBC do not cover specific news. Its also about whether it makes it to front page outlet like Six O clack news

One particular member of management with editorial control does come in for a lot of criticism by other BBC journalists. Pro Israel and its not a secret.

BBC management held series of listening sessions with journalists. But the management treated those journalists complaining about coverage as having emotional issues. In need of "support". Whilst the journalists were saying no its about proper impartiality in reporting. And saying things how they are even if that does not look good for IDF/ Israel

So is BBC all bad? No. Does management take on board issues brought up by those on shopfloor? No. Its the usual I feel your pain how about some counselling? Making it a personal issue. Not that a significant number of journalists have collective concerns.

I'm more of the opinion that senior management have the so called sensible mainstream views of most of establishment. As shown in the quote above. That trickles down into what is acceptable and not acceptable to give coverage to. And the emphasis it gets in the news organisation as a whole.

What's been difficult for them as attack on Gaza went on month after month was that accurate plain speaking was something mge could not handle. Despite decent journalists at BBC wanting more to the point coverage with headlines making clear who perpetrators were when Palestinians were killed. The case of the autistic boy mauled by IDF dogs was one case mentioned.

So its not a conspiracy or that the BBC is controlled by Jews.

Yes, the BBC (and other UK media outlets) don't seem to give the same level of prominence in many cases to the Palestinians who have been murdered in this atrocity as they do to the Israeli's that were murdered. Not only those that have been murdered either. If you look at the coverage of the Israeli hostages that have just been released, their story has been given far more coverage than that of the Palestinian hostages which were also released. The individuals involved are seen as being more newsworthy if Israelli. There have of course been the occasional focus on Palestinian individuals but even then it doesn't seem to be at the top of the news agenda for as long. I think that there should be equal attention to both.

 

[HeAthen]

For balance, a story where I think the BBC does well in it's reporting (I know it's Lebanon not Gaza but it's obviously all linked).

Mostly civilians died in IDF attack on Lebanon village, BBC finds

An IDF attack on a Lebanese apartment block targeting Hezbollah killed mostly civilians, BBC finds.

www.bbc.co.uk