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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

Pickman's model said:
There's perhaps a difference between Ireland, which was brought into union with Britain in 1801, which sent more than 100 mps to Westminster until 1918 - and the six counties - and the gaza strip. The zionists have never had the motivation the British did not to slaughter large numbers of Irish people,when you see how the killing of comparatively small numbers of people at croke Park, bachelor's walk, and of course in derry played out. I don't find the analogy of the ira useful as there's always been a part of the population of Ireland/Northern Ireland who have desired to remain within the Union and not just a protestant part. Where is the equivalent in gaza or the west bank?
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The people who do just try to get on are often the ones attacked by the IDF.
 
www.theguardian.com

US and UK to back Israel over ICJ ruling after blurring their Rafah red lines

Having initially vowed to oppose any offensive, Washington and London are showing signs of having backed down
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Read this a few days ago. Unless they've said anything new the UK and USA "red line" on IDF not attacking Rafah is blurred out of all recognition.

UK government said the Palestinians who've left Rafah did so voluntarily of their own accord. This to a select committee whose MPs were understandably incredulous that a senior government figure could say this.

What I read from this is there never was a red line. This was for domestic consumption.

The only change imo is that IDF will attack Rafah in more gradual fashion. The end result will be the same.

Longer term where will refugees go?

Is next thing to push Israel allies to some kind of what Zionists historically called "population transfer"?

As once Rafah is gone thats the last remaining infrastructure.

There are no red lines for allies of Israel.
 
Gramsci said:
www.theguardian.com

US and UK to back Israel over ICJ ruling after blurring their Rafah red lines

Having initially vowed to oppose any offensive, Washington and London are showing signs of having backed down
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Read this a few days ago. Unless they've said anything new the UK and USA "red line" on IDF not attacking Rafah is blurred out of all recognition.

UK government said the Palestinians who've left Rafah did so voluntarily of their own accord. This to a select committee whose MPs were understandably incredulous that a senior government figure could say this.

What I read from this is there never was a red line. This was for domestic consumption.

The only change imo is that IDF will attack Rafah in more gradual fashion. The end result will be the same.

Longer term where will refugees go?

Is next thing to push Israel allies to some kind of what Zionists historically called "population transfer"?

As once Rafah is gone thats the last remaining infrastructure.

There are no red lines for allies of Israel.
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The Israeli objective seems to be to make Gaza uninhabitable. Other countries have been 'invited' to potentially rebuild after the conflict (can't even believe I'm writing this, yet know I did read it), but far easier and preferential from the Israeli side for the Palestinians to go elsewhere. But the Israelis have burnt every bridge presented to them, so how would that happen? It doesn't look very positive at the moment, but I do think (for the first time) that Israel will and must change, in a very major way.
 
The backlash to this, if the press are to be beleived, is the strongest yet. Perhaps Israel has crossed the line this time.

The line that was drawn by their backers, not the rest of humanity who has thankfully drawn a much stronger and more humane line for some months now.

Absolutely appalling. I wonder if any of those loons who think Hamas is lurking within the 'hate marches' taking place in London each saturday would be ok with the IDF bombing the city so indiscriminately. Same logic, no?
 
Karl Masks said:
The backlash to this, if the press are to be beleived, is the strongest yet. Perhaps Israel has crossed the line this time.

The line that was drawn by their backers, not the rest of humanity who has thankfully drawn a much stronger and more humane line for some months now.

Absolutely appalling. I wonder if any of those loons who think Hamas is lurking within the 'hate marches' taking place in London each saturday would be ok with the IDF bombing the city so indiscriminately. Same logic, no?
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Just had a look at the loons.

Campaign Against Antisemitism ( CAA) twitter and nothing about CAA position on IDF bombing of Rafah.

Gleeful post on the "racist" Corbyn being kicked out of Labour party. But nothing on recent events in Gaza.

Not a surprise to me. This is pro Zionist outfit. Trying and failing to make out pro Palestinian marches make London unsafe for Jews. And anyone who opposes Zionism and supports palestinian rights is an anti semite.
 
Last weekend we had a stall collecting for Medical Aid for Palestinians. I was called a Holocaust denier and was also told that Jews on the stall were antisemitic because of the all pervasive presence of antisemitism in society. Even Jews can't help it, apparently. I was also told that we were all hugely misinformed, but they were unable to specify what we were misinformed about when I enquired. Sometimes it doesn't seem worthwhile to engage with some people. Still do, though.
 
Remember being at small demo years ago about arms trade. Small Jewish socialist group there with banner. I saw this guy make a beeline for them. Launched into them telling them they were self hating Jews. They had this weary look on them that they had had this many times before. Tried to defend them. He was having none of it. Had all the answers. First time I'd met a Zionist.

Never forgot that.
 
This all happened before the current awfulness that Israel is presiding over but it is linked. If the Mossad chief had managed to dissuade the then head of the ICC's prosecution team, Fatou Bensouda to abandon pursuing a war crimes investigation then her successor Karim Khan would not have been in the position to request arrest warrants:

www.theguardian.com

Revealed: Israeli spy chief ‘threatened’ ICC prosecutor over war crimes inquiry

Mossad director Yossi Cohen personally involved in secret plot to pressure Fatou Bensouda to drop Palestine investigation, sources say
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

More on this is apparently going to be published this afternoon in a joint investigation by 972 Mag and the Guardian.
 
teqniq said:
This all happened before the current awfulness that Israel is presiding over but it is linked. If the Mossad chief had managed to dissuade the then head of the ICC's prosecution team, Fatou Bensouda to abandon pursuing a war crimes investigation then her successor Karim Khan would not have been in the position to request arrest warrants:

www.theguardian.com

Revealed: Israeli spy chief ‘threatened’ ICC prosecutor over war crimes inquiry

Mossad director Yossi Cohen personally involved in secret plot to pressure Fatou Bensouda to drop Palestine investigation, sources say
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

More on this is apparently going to be published this afternoon in a joint investigation by 972 Mag and the Guardian.
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that'd be conspiracy to pervert the course of justice
 
From that article: Revealed: Israeli spy chief ‘threatened’ ICC prosecutor over war crimes inquiry

Three of those sources were familiar with Bensouda’s formal disclosures to the ICC about the matter. They said she revealed Cohen had put pressure on her on several occasions not to proceed with a criminal investigation in the ICC’s Palestine case.

According to accounts shared with ICC officials, he is alleged to have told her: “You should help us and let us take care of you. You don’t want to be getting into things that could compromise your security or that of your family.”

One individual briefed on Cohen’s activities said he had used “despicable tactics” against Bensouda as part of an ultimately unsuccessful effort to intimidate and influence her. They likened his behaviour to “stalking”.

The Mossad also took a keen interest in Bensouda’s family members and obtained transcripts of secret recordings of her husband, according to two sources with direct knowledge of the situation. Israeli officials then attempted to use the material to discredit the prosecutor.
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:eek:

(my bold)
 
www.theguardian.com

Spying, hacking and intimidation: Israel’s nine-year ‘war’ on the ICC exposed

Exclusive: Investigation reveals how intelligence agencies tried to derail war crimes prosecution, with Netanyahu ‘obsessed’ with intercepts
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

another :eek: in fact several of them, there's shitloads of it

The allegations of war crimes and crimes against humanity that Khan has levelled against Netanyahu and Gallant all relate to Israel’s eight-month war in Gaza, which according to the territory’s health authority has killed more than 35,000 people.

But the ICC case has been a decade in the making, inching forward amid rising alarm among Israeli officials at the possibility of arrest warrants, which would prevent those accused from travelling to any of the court’s 124 member states for fear of arrest.

It is this spectre of prosecutions in The Hague that one former Israeli intelligence official said had led the “entire military and political establishment” to regard the counteroffensive against the ICC “as a war that had to be waged, and one that Israel needed to be defended against. It was described in military terms.”

That “war” commenced in January 2015, when it was confirmed that Palestine would join the court after it was recognised as a state by the UN general assembly. Its accession was condemned by Israeli officials as a form of “diplomatic terrorism”.

One former defence official familiar with Israel’s counter-ICC effort said joining the court had been “perceived as the crossing of a red line” and “perhaps the most aggressive” diplomatic move taken by the Palestinian Authority, which governs the West Bank. “To be recognised as a state in the UN is nice,” they added. “But the ICC is a mechanism with teeth.”
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Whagwan said:
Lazy and fucking offensive.

View attachment 426293

View attachment 426294
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It's also lazy for another reason.

Watching Novara media last night and point was made it's all well and good for Labour leadership to say this now. But they aren't saying what they would do if they were in power to make any of this happen.

For example when Starmer is PM what will he do to make Israel agree to genuine two state solution?

Would Starmer end arms sales to Israel? Would Starmer support BDS ? To pressure Israel state.

And there a chance this war in Gaza will still be going on when he gets into power

There's an election coming up and be good to know what they would do in practice when in power

Or is this just hot air from leadership of party as the former position of Israel has a right to defend itself and cut off water now harming leadership?
 
Johnny Vodka said:
www.thenational.scot

SNP will force vote on Palestinian statehood, John Swinney tells Tories and Labour

FIRST Minister John Swinney has written to Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer to demand they commit to recognise the state of Palestine ...
www.thenational.scot www.thenational.scot
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Interesting. Of course Starmer won't do it (and I assume he's the next pm). However, if other EU countries line up behind Spain & Ireland, this country, like it usually does, will maybe fall into line, belatedly. Wouldn't hold my breath though.
 
Mezzer said:
Interesting. Of course Starmer won't do it (and I assume he's the next pm). However, if other EU countries line up behind Spain & Ireland, this country, like it usually does, will maybe fall into line, belatedly. Wouldn't hold my breath though.
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so which was the last country the uk only recognised after spain, norway, ireland and 139 other nations showed the way? oh and a host of eu countries already recognise palestine - among them poland, romania, czechia, slovakia, bulgaria, sweden and cyprus
 
Pickman's model said:
so which was the last country the uk only recognised after spain, norway, ireland and 139 other nations showed the way? oh and a host of eu countries already recognise palestine - among them poland, romania, czechia, slovakia, bulgaria, sweden and cyprus
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You do like to nit pick, don't you? I was referring to how this country never, ever, leads the way. Not specifically about country recognition. Think of the smoking ban in pubs and shared spaces. Almost everywhere else did it before the UK. That kind of thing...
 
Mezzer said:
You do like to nit pick, don't you? I was referring to how this country never, ever, leads the way. Not specifically about country recognition. Think of the smoking ban in pubs and shared spaces. Almost everywhere else did it before the UK. That kind of thing...
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you might have been thinking of that sort of thing but you weren't saying it. but you're right, this country wasn't even among the first to recognise the zionist entity.
 
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