Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[bimble]

Conspiracy theories will undermine any cohesion and outward response more thoroughly than the EDL ever could.

I agree but its understandable in the vacuum of information and the shock and need for answers that aren't coming anytime soon.
There were also i should say loud & clear voices saying that the most vital thing is that people don't get divided and don't get distracted into fighting each other.

 

[marty21]

It may be difficult to identify who was living in the block due to the mixture of tenures. The council will have the names of leaseholders and tenants but not necessarily all the household members. Leaseholders may have sub-let their flats and not told the council (they are supposed to) . Tenants may have sub-let and not told the council as it is now a criminal offence and they would lose their tenancy, and they may not come clean now as they will be re-housed.

 

[crossthebreeze]

Heard so many things yesterday that might or might not be true. There was one man was shouting where were the tall ladders where was the water, saying the rescue response was woefully inadequate. The young man who was in that video clip that went everywhere on Wednesday was there, he said that some journalists car was parked whilst the fire was still blazing so that it obstructed the access to fire engines. A woman said the stairwell was full of bodies, children and adults. Huge numbers were talked of, a lot of people definitely convinced there's a conspiracy to suppress the known numbers of dead. Rumours of undercover police and EDL members trying to undermine the solidarity of the community and the protests. The longer there's no answers the rumours will spiral filling the gaps.

Yeah there's been videos circulating on social media of clearly distressed residents saying that they have "proof" the fire brigade didn't turn up until 4am, or that they think there were no survivors at all and there's a massive coverup. It seems like Press TV and a few "alternative" news organisations are deliberately finding and interviewing people who have reached breaking point and become paranoid.

 

[crossthebreeze]

It may be difficult to identify who was living in the block due to the mixture of tenures. The council will have the names of leaseholders and tenants but not necessarily all the household members. Leaseholders may have sub-let their flats and not told the council (they are supposed to) . Tenants may have sub-let and not told the council as it is now a criminal offence and they would lose their tenancy, and they may not come clean now as they will be re-housed.

Yeah and - from the sounds of that BLMUK post I quoted here - at least some residents who can't prove their status in the flats have been told they will be kicked out of temporary accomadation soon and not rehoused

 

[planetgeli]

Heard so many things yesterday that might or might not be true. There was one man was shouting where were the tall ladders where was the water, saying the rescue response was woefully inadequate. The young man who was in that video clip that went everywhere on Wednesday was there, he said that some journalists car was parked whilst the fire was still blazing so that it obstructed the access to fire engines.

Although that's obviously jumbled in the aftermath, as well as being the result of people seeking answers where none are being given, it's not a conspiracy to note that access for emergency vehicles was woefully inadequate at Grenfell. It's one of the things raised as a concern in the Grenfell blog from a couple of years ago. And early reports in the media noted that although some 40 fire tenders turned up, only 2 were initially able to operate, probably due to this lack of access. Do we have to wait 3 years for the inquiry to say this before we can say it without being accused of being conspiracy theorists?

And just how hard is it for the council to provide a fairly accurate estimate of the numbers living in that tower block, something they are refusing to do? When you have a situation being mismanaged like that I don't think you can blame the people for inventing their own answers, even if those answers are inaccurate. The council was given a chance to quell the emotiveness with hard facts and they refused to take it.

 

[mojo pixy]

"Sympathy Withdrawn - white proverb" .. what the fuck is that meant to mean? Is it meant to help? Or is it another rentagob using a massive tragedy as a springboard for attention. Wank.

 

[marty21]

Yeah and - from the sounds of that BLMUK post I quoted here - at least some residents who can't prove their status in the flats have been told they will be kicked out of temporary accomadation soon and not rehoused

K&C are having nightmares enough without doing that ,I've a feeling that they will have to find a way to re-house all the households. It doesn't have to be in council accommodation, it can be via private lets too.

 

[mauvais]

there isn't a requirement to update older buildings to new standards that's the thing, there's a bit of info on that in here(and requirements for alterations) it mainly provides a lot of info re the risk assessment side of things.

This may be true in part, but is far from universal. For example existing HMOs had a load of new requirements placed on them a few years back.

 

[killer b]

Yeah and - from the sounds of that BLMUK post I quoted here - at least some residents who can't prove their status in the flats have been told they will be kicked out of temporary accomadation soon and not rehoused

I was wondering what would happen to the people who were subletting unnofficially - which will be a decent number I expect. Grim.

 

[mauvais]

"Sympathy Withdrawn - white proverb" .. what the fuck is that meant to mean? Is it meant to help? Or is it another rentagob using a massive tragedy as a springboard for attention. Wank.

As with many of these, click on it and view the conversation - not much use on its own.

 

[mojo pixy]

Sadly, that's how it'll get shared, rendering it poisonous.

 

[BCBlues]

It's been horrific just thinking about all the emotions the victims went through and will have to endure.
When you even manage to mildly deal with that you see people like May Barwell and Paget Brown cowering, deceiving and being smug in their non interest.

This thread has been a saviour,so much info shared and compassion/anger shown.

Eta that prick pagets name

 

[bimble]

As with many of these, click on it and view the conversation - not much use on its own.

i think you have to see that in context with the commentators on the DM also, to which i think its probably a response. Bunch of illegal brown people coming over here making a fuss after being given free houses etc.

 

[teqniq]

Fuck me she's all kinds of useless isn't she?

Theresa May branded 'inhuman' after Newsnight interview about Grenfell Tower fire

Theresa May was criticised after she sidestepped questions about the Grenfell Tower fire.

In an interview with the BBC's Newsnight, Theresa May called the incident which killed at least 30 people “absolutely horrifying”.

But asked whether she had failed to judge the public mood by host Emily Maitlis, Ms May appeared to skip over the question. ...

 

[Barking_Mad]

Jesus Christ.

A firefighter who climbed to the 15th floor as the Grenfell Tower was burned has spoken about how he feared the block would collapse like the World Trade Centre.

Leon Whitley, 34, was among the dozens to run towards danger when the blaze broke out at the 24-storey tower in west London.

Mr Whitley, a father-of-one, told The Sun: “It was reminiscent of the Twin Towers. Those things go through your mind while you’re in there.

“We all know how that building collapsed. I thought, ‘We might not make it out this one’.
“I usually walk into fires very cautious but not scared. That was the first time I was scared.”

He described the experience as “hellish” and added he still hears the screams from people trapped as flames tore through the building.
He told the paper: “It was crazy. The screams were coming from all directions. I don’t think I will ever forget them.

“The screams were horrifying because you knew everyone needed help but you couldn’t see them.”

Damian Magee, crew manager at Whitechapel Fire Station, told Sky News: “We were hoping it was a building site, a new-build that was going up, because we couldn’t believe what we were seeing and we were miles and miles away.

“We heard the children screaming, I can remember one kid’s voice that was sticking out, higher pitched than all the others. Screaming, screaming for help.

“They probably had some sort of hope when they saw us firefighters down there, for us to get in and help them.”

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

This may be true in part, but is far from universal. For example existing HMOs had a load of new requirements placed on them a few years back.

Fair enough I lifted that bit straight from the link I shared but wary of talking past the scope of my knowledge!

 

[mauvais]

Fair enough I lifted that bit straight from the link I shared but wary of talking past the scope of my knowledge!

A long way from my expertise too, but there's definitely update requirements that should be complied with - all gets very complicated very quickly and goes into subdivided bits of legislation etc

 

[bimble]

This is a picture from yesterday, i can't put in words the feeling of seeing it up close like that, there were little groups of silent people just looking up at it. It sort of knocks the breath out of you, deadest thing i ever saw.

 

[frogwoman]

is anywhere taking donations? a couple of days ago they were overwhelmed still.

 

[Barking_Mad]

More condemnation, this time from a BBC journo.

 

[dessiato]

Jesus Christ.

One of my uncles became a senior fire officer. At the beginning of his career he went into a burning house to try to save a child, against orders, because he couldn't stand to hear the screams. He's been retired for 10+ years and still has nightmares over this child. How much worse must it be for these men and women going into Grenfell? I hope that they get the mental health care that they will need. And not just the fire crews, but the ambulance and police who attended. Unfortunately I suspect that, because of reductions in NHS funding, they'll be forced to live with their nightmares

My only hope is that this is the start of the destruction of the Tory party as it stands.

 

[bimble]

is anywhere taking donations? a couple of days ago they were overwhelmed still.

I think money is better than objects at this time, maybe this London Fire Relief Fund to help the people of Grenfell Tower
There were piles of things in the street outside nearby help centres yesterday, kids toys cooking pots clothes probably the overspill that they couldn't find room for inside.

 

[teqniq]

and again from a BBC journo

 

[marty21]

This is a picture from yesterday, i can't put in words the feeling of seeing it up close like that, there were little groups of silent people just looking up at it. It sort of knocks the breath out of you, deadest thing i ever saw.
View attachment 109542

I saw it yesterday as I drove on the westway, it is a shocking sight .

 

[equationgirl]

is anywhere taking donations? a couple of days ago they were overwhelmed still.

The red cross are also accepting monetary donations.

 

[Cid]

Fuck me she's all kinds of useless isn't she?

Theresa May branded 'inhuman' after Newsnight interview about Grenfell Tower fire

Fucking hell. Bizarre.

 

[dessiato]

The more I hear the angrier I become. Few things have made me want to actively protest, and to take to the streets to support protests. This does. I'm unreasonably angry. I have friends who live in similar tower blocks. I find myself thinking how it might be them.

I want the Tories to know that I, a normally peaceful person, wants to push their faces into faces of the victims, to force them to look how their policies have killed these, and other, people. I want them to suffer. I want them to know the pain they are causing, and have caused.

Sorry, it just upsets me so much.

 

[teqniq]

frogwoman I donated a bit of dosh to this justgiving account, it was posted by someone else way upthread over a million squid so far...

 

[frogwoman]

Fucking hell. Bizarre.

that interview ...

'where are they going to be housed?'

'this has been a terrible experience'

 

[frogwoman]

frogwoman I donated a bit of dosh to this justgiving account, it was posted by someone else way upthread over a million squid so far...

so did I a couple days ago