Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[marty21]

Grenfell evacuees still being charged rent after inferno

The staff are presumably a bit busy at the moment , it won't be difficult crediting the rent accounts when someone is free to do it.

 

[Treacle Toes]

The staff are presumably a bit busy at the moment , it won't be difficult crediting the rent accounts when someone is free to do it.

Eh?
Marty...the rent accounts should no longer exist because the home/tenancy no longer exists.

Surely they are not being charged for the hotel's and temp accommodation?

Money is being taken out of people's bank accounts...money they most certainly need at the moment.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I would have thought suspending all computer generated activity with regard DD's for this block would have been a priority? At least now, it's been a few weeks!

 

[belboid]

Eh?
Marty...the rent accounts should no longer exist because the home/tenancy no longer exists.

Surely they are not being charged for the hotel's and temp accommodation?

Money is being taken out of people's bank accounts...money they most certainly need at the moment.

With a staff cut to the bone, and having to work even harder now, under even more pressure, it's not surprising some mistakes like this are made. It will, probably, be one staff member who hasn't clicked one box, or one tenant who, for some reason, didn't come up on the spreadsheet of Grenfell residents not to be charged and so got overlooked. It shouldn't happen, of course, and its right to make a fuss of it, especially if it has happened to more than one or two people, but it's the kind of error that is all to easy in any large bureaucracy, and one that should be able to be put right in five minutes.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Tory councillor: media efforts to attend Grenfell meeting were 'clever stunt'

Whereas council attempts to prevent oversight of meeting were work of stupid cunt...

Nice play on words,

Yours, cupid stunt.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Eh?
Marty...the rent accounts should no longer exist because the home/tenancy no longer exists.

TBF, the article does refer to people 'evacuated from their homes close to Grenfell Tower', not people from the tower itself, so I guess their homes still exist, bit of a cock-up, certainly not right, but...

Anyway, from the link:

The threat came after it was revealed that families who where evacuated from their homes close to Grenfell Tower, in the wake of the fire which killed at least 80 people, have continued to be charged rent on their flats.

 

[Casual Observer]

With a staff cut to the bone, and having to work even harder now, under even more pressure, it's not surprising some mistakes like this are made.

That's not the case. The KCTMO, which runs the social housing operation on behalf of the council, had a full time staff of 220 as of 31 March 2015. They also employ agency staff on top of that figure as well as having their own separate repairs company with even more staff. That's hardly 'staff cut to the bone' is it?

 

[belboid]

That's not the case. The KCTMO, which runs the social housing operation on behalf of the council, had a full time staff of 220 as of 31 March 2015. They also employ agency staff on top of that figure as well as having their own separate repairs company with even more staff. That's hardly 'staff cut to the bone' is it?

Dunno. It's not a small area, how many staff did they have doing the same jobs five years ago? Do you really think eight years of austerity have had no effect on jobs there?

 

[Cid]

KCTMO 'runs nearly 10000 properties' according to wiki...

 

[BemusedbyLife]

That's not the case. The KCTMO, which runs the social housing operation on behalf of the council, had a full time staff of 220 as of 31 March 2015. They also employ agency staff on top of that figure as well as having their own separate repairs company with even more staff. That's hardly 'staff cut to the bone' is it?

This is 2017 killing off a Direct Debit is the click of a mouse it's not like someone has to traipse down to the bank and sign 15 forms, this may not be malicious but it reeks of incompetence and disinterest in dealing with the issue
There's also a report on the Beeb about some family evacuated from Camsden (including school kids) that are sofa surfing a week after they were kicked out to make it look like council were doing something.
Sofa surfing is acceptable when I'm crashing on my sisters couch because I've had a skinful on Saturday night and missed my bus home, no way should kids that have to go to school the next day be doing it.

 

[Casual Observer]

It's not a small area, how many staff did they have doing the same jobs five years ago?

I don't have the figures for 5 years ago but can say that KCTMO had 161 directly employed staff on 31 March 2011. As said in my previous post, they had 220 directly employed staff on 31 March 2015. In other words, their staffing levels increased by 37% in the four year period of 'austerity'.

Do you really think eight years of austerity have had no effect on jobs there?

It did have an effect on jobs, but not in the way you think. It increased them by 37%.

 

[Brainaddict]

I don't have the figures for 5 years ago but can say that KCTMO had 161 directly employed staff on 31 March 2011. As said in my previous post, they had 220 directly employed staff on 31 March 2015. In other words, their staffing levels increased by 37% in the four year period of 'austerity'.

It did have an effect on jobs, but not in the way you think. It increased them by 37%.

Common sense* says no social housing provider has had a big increase of resources in the last few years, so perhaps some research is needed on why this happened.

I know that a while back KCTMO set up their own maintenance company because they were getting crap service from outside providers. This type of changing between outsourcing and in-house could account for changes in staff levels.

*And a Tory government

 

[Treacle Toes]

TBF, the article does refer to people 'evacuated from their homes close to Grenfell Tower', not people from the tower itself, so I guess their homes still exist, bit of a cock-up, certainly not right, but...

Anyway, from the link:

Yeah fair point. I took the headline too literally. Charging evacuated people, for whom there must be a register is fucking shit though. Having to live away from home is expensive enough without having to pay rent for a property you can't live in as well. suspending charges is the least they can do.

 

[belboid]

I don't have the figures for 5 years ago but can say that KCTMO had 161 directly employed staff on 31 March 2011. As said in my previous post, they had 220 directly employed staff on 31 March 2015. In other words, their staffing levels increased by 37% in the four year period of 'austerity'.

It did have an effect on jobs, but not in the way you think. It increased them by 37%.

6,924 tenanted properties v over 10,000 today - an increase of 45%. So not as big a cut as many councils have faced but K&C were always tight as fuck in the first place.

None of which should be taken to mean K&C shouldn't be held responsible for their tight assedness, or the tories let off for austerity, but it's that that's at fault. And saying otherwise risks letting the blame be stuck on some lowly worker/temp.

 

[marty21]

Eh?
Marty...the rent accounts should no longer exist because the home/tenancy no longer exists.

Surely they are not being charged for the hotel's and temp accommodation?

Money is being taken out of people's bank accounts...money they most certainly need at the moment.

The rent accounts exist until someone terminates them. Yes the individual tenants do need the money. One would hope that the leaseholders who rented their flats out have cancelled their tenancies.

 

[Casual Observer]

Common sense* says no social housing provider has had a big increase of resources in the last few years, so perhaps some research is needed on why this happened.

I know that a while back KCTMO set up their own maintenance company because they were getting crap service from outside providers. This type of changing between outsourcing and in-house could account for changes in staff levels.

*And a Tory government

I referred to the separate KCTMO maintenance company a couple of posts ago. That's a wholly-owned subsidiary of KCTMO and files its own annual reports. This repairs company quote average staffing levels of 30 for y/e 31/03/16. Let's assume for this debate that the repairs company also had 30 staff for y/e 31/03/15. As I say, I suspect these staff are additional to the 220 staff directly employed by KCTMO at the same time but, even if they aren't that, that still gives us 190 full time staff at KCTMO on 31/03/15 - an increase of 18% in the 4 years since 2011. This proves that staff levels have increased, not reduced during the austerity era.

On top of the directly employed full time staffing numbers that I quote, KCTMO also employ additional agency staff.

The point I am trying to make is that charging homeless ex-Grenfell residents for rent after the fire is unforgivable. It is a not an innocent clerical error that can be blamed on austerity, staffing levels 'cut to the bone' etc..

 

[belboid]

I referred to the separate KCTMO maintenance company a couple of posts ago. That's a wholly-owned subsidiary of KCTMO and files its own annual reports. This repairs company quote average staffing levels of 30 for y/e 31/03/16. Let's assume for this debate that the repairs company also had 30 staff for y/e 31/03/15. As I say, I suspect these staff are additional to the 220 staff directly employed by KCTMO at the same time but, even if they aren't that, that still gives us 190 full time staff at KCTMO on 31/03/15 - an increase of 18% in the 4 years since 2011. This proves that staff levels have increased, not reduced during the austerity era.

On top of the directly employed full time staffing numbers that I quote, KCTMO also employ additional agency staff.

The point I am trying to make is that charging homeless ex-Grenfell residents for rent after the fire is unforgivable. It is a not an innocent clerical error that can be blamed on austerity, staffing levels 'cut to the bone' etc..

But you haven't taken into account them taking on more properties to look after, so it's not comparing like to like.

 

[Ted Striker]

The point I am trying to make is that charging homeless ex-Grenfell residents for rent after the fire is unforgivable. It is a not an innocent clerical error that can be blamed on austerity, staffing levels 'cut to the bone' etc..

You can sure-as-shit bet they've informed their insurers accurately enough about the loss in revenue.

 

[Casual Observer]

But you haven't taken into account them taking on more properties to look after, so it's not comparing like to like.

There is no evidence that KCTMO had more homes to look after during the period when there was a 37% increase in staff (2011 - 2015). In fact, the evidence suggests that dwelling levels stayed the same over this period.

I can't find a figure for social housing dwellings in 2011 but there is mention of a KCTMO resident survey at that time which involved knocking on the doors of 'almost 10,000' doors. We can assume from that that there were 'almost 10,000' social housing dwellings in 2011. The official figure for 2015 is 9,862. As I say, no increase.

The 6,924 number that you quoted in an earlier post is from 1996. All the numbers that I quote come for 2011 and 2015 come from KCTMO annual reports.

Charging homeless ex-Grenfell residents for rent after the fire is unforgivable. It is a not an innocent clerical error that can be blamed on austerity.

 

[belboid]

The 6924 is from the 2010/11 annual report

 

[Casual Observer]

I see where the confusion may be coming from. The 6,924 number that you mention is for 'tenanted properties', which is a subset of the total number for social housing properties (tenanted + leasehold). The total number stands at approximately 10,000 and seems to have remained at that level throughout the 2011 to 2015 period, when there was an apparent 37% increase in staff.

 

[killer b]

Why are you bothering with all this googling? Seems an odd hill to die on.

 

[Gramsci]

Possibly the wisest words by a politician thus far (not difficult):

Lord Adonis: don't wait for inquiry to implement change

Important decisions on fire safety should not be delayed until after the public inquiry, which “could take 10 years”, an influential Labour peer chair of the National Infrastructure Commission has said.

Lord Andrew Adonis made the remarks in his address to the Housing 2017 conference in Manchester earlier today.

“What tends to happen with these public inquiries,” he warned, “is everybody says that they should leave taking any serious action until the public inquiry’s been reported and that they can’t deal with all these difficult questions until after the inquiry.

“It’s very important that we don’t delay all action and all improvements and any bold attempt to address this serious problem of the shortage of social housing in central London, that we don’t park all of that until this inquiry has reported.”

Lord Adonis, who in his speech emphasised the importance of a joined-up approach between infrastructure and housing, also insisted that setting up an inquiry was not the same as taking real action.

“There had to be a public inquiry on this occasion because the loss of life was so great and the tragedy so appalling,” the life peer conceded. “But it’s very convenient for governments to set up public inquiries because they appear to be doing something.

“In fact – let’s be clear – all that they’re doing is appointing a public inquiry. Nothing else has changed.”

Retired judge Sir Martin Moore-Bick will lead the public inquiry. Lord Adonis said that he hoped Sir Martin has “a lot of resilience and staying power because he may well need it”.

Inside Housing’s Never Again campaign calls on government to update and clarify building regulations immediately – with a commitment to update if additional learning emerges at a later date from the Grenfell inquiry.

Adonis: don't wait for inquiry to implement change

Lord Adonis makes a telling comment in the Inside Housing article:

“It’s very important that we don’t delay all action and all improvements and any bold attempt to address this serious problem of the shortage of social housing in central London, that we don’t park all of that until this inquiry has reported.”

He is a Blairiite. His "bold" idea is to "regenerate" Council estates. As at Heygate. An example he uses in the IPPR paper he helped to write.

The 35% Campaign ( been writing very good stuff critiquing the so called regeneration of Elephant & Castle) write about it here


Manifesto for the destruction of council estates

The way I read his piece in Inside Housing is that he to use the Grenfell fire as another reason to get on with his plan to get rid of Council housing. He doesn't want a larger discussion of the need for truly affordable housing that's publicly owned.

 

[emanymton]

TBF, the article does refer to people 'evacuated from their homes close to Grenfell Tower', not people from the tower itself, so I guess their homes still exist, bit of a cock-up, certainly not right, but...

Anyway, from the link:

Maybe not

Grenfell fire: Survivor's 'rent deducted' - BBC News

 

[killer b]

What the fuck is going on here?

Mistrust and anger deepen as Grenfell death toll is still unknown

 

[ddraig]

What the fuck is going on here?

Mistrust and anger deepen as Grenfell death toll is still unknown

jesus!

 

[butchersapron]

What the fuck is going on here?

Mistrust and anger deepen as Grenfell death toll is still unknown

They arrived ahead of the meeting and found a single man in a hat, whom no one recognised, and a police officer who was the only named person on the agenda.

How did he come to be there? The named copper. Presumably because he was named on the agenda and wanted a look -so why not reported to bosses? I suspect it was a hilarious 'ultra-left' stunt. The single copper - if the report is correct - needs explaining as does the vague man in hat ref - talk to him/them then.

edit: no, the knowing the names and hotel addresses rules that out.

 

[Gramsci]

At the Tories out demo today

 

[killer b]

How did he come to be there? The named copper. Presumably because he was named on the agenda and wanted a look -so why not reported to bosses? I suspect it was a hilarious 'ultra-left' stunt. The single copper - if the report is correct - needs explaining as does the vague man in hat ref - talk to him/them then.

edit: no, the knowing the names and hotel addresses rules that out.

On a side note, jolyon Maugham has inserted himself very effectively into British public life the last 12 months or so. He's everywhere atm.

 

[J Ed]

On a side note, jolyon Maugham has inserted himself very effectively into British public life the last 12 months or so. He's everywhere atm.

I was just thinking that. Wtf.