Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[J Ed]

12 months ago I had no idea anyone was called Jolyon, now everyone is called that

 

[killer b]

12 months ago I had no idea anyone was called Jolyon, now everyone is called that

No, there's just Maugham. It just feels like he's everyone.

 

[J Ed]

No, there's just Maugham. It just feels like he's everyone.

What about Jolyon Green?

 

[killer b]

I was joking... He's definitely the most visible jolyon though. Also now everyone on Twitter has changed their names to jolyon it's difficult to know who's real or not.

 

[Sue]

On a side note, jolyon Maugham has inserted himself very effectively into British public life the last 12 months or so. He's everywhere atm.

Never heard of him. Acording to Google, he's a tax lawyer who's anti-Brexit. Why is anyone interested in him?

Jolyon Forsyte and sons are the only Jolyons I'd previously ever heard of.

 

[Pickman's model]

Never heard of him. Acording to Google, he's a tax lawyer who's anti-Brexit. Why is anyone interested in him?

Jolyon Forsyte and sons are the only Jolyons I'd previously ever heard of.

There's a jolyon in tintin too

 

[killer b]

Never heard of him. Acording to Google, he's a tax lawyer who's anti-Brexit. Why is anyone interested in him?

He appears to be representing the grenfell survivors, so has ended up a media mouthpiece of sorts for them. Elsewhere he's taking uber to court to make them pay minimum wage, and he's been all over brexit like a rash. He Also finds time to blog about tax, and presumably has to do some paid work sometimes.

 

[killer b]

I'm interested in him because of his sudden ubiquity.

 

[elbows]

I'm interested in him because of his sudden ubiquity.

He seems to have got some attention in 2015. eg:

Labour's non-dom adviser represented celebrity tax dodge film schemes

A leading QC who advised Labour on its non-doms tax crackdown represented controversial film investment schemes that sheltered money for hundreds of wealthy celebrities including Sir Alex Ferguson and Take That.

Ed Balls, the shadow chancellor, cited Jolyon Maugham as an independent expert who had backed the policy and had forecast that it would raise £1billion.

The Telegraph has established that Mr Maugham, a Labour suporter, has been in discussions with Labour about the policy for six weeks and played a role in designing it.

Don't Labour tax advisers pop up in the funniest places? | Coffee House

Well next month Jolyon is off on a jolly to that well-known bastion of progressive taxation: Geneva.

He has just been unveiled as a star speaker at the Transcontinental Trusts 2015 conference in Switzerland. The Grand Hotel Kempinski will play host to tax efficiency experts from around the world, for a two-day seminar on the sort of tax practices Ed Miliband spent his five years as Labour leader slamming.

Fifth of Labour Party donors 'have quit' since Corbyn became leader

Jolyon Maugham, a top London tax barrister who advised Ed Miliband on his non-dom crackdown before the election, told the Evening Standard he left in September and had switched his financial support to causes like Labour Women’s Network.

“I was giving the Labour Party £5,000 a year but I stopped on the day that Corbyn was elected because of the fact that there was not a single woman on stage with him that day,” he said.

“It has been worse than anyone feared. Once I see Labour with an electable leader again I will no doubt want to renew my support.”

Members give at least £100 a month to join the club, and the elite President’s Tier means giving £5,000 a year or more. In return they are given social gatherings and the chance to meet shadow ministers.

 

[8den]

Fuck. 'In. Hell.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Fuck. 'In. Hell.

Yesterday's news.

K&C have already said they have stopped collecting rent for flats in the tower, and for other nearby properties evacuated, because they were dependant on the boiler in the basement of the tower for hot water. They have also said that even when people move back into these properties, no rent will be taken until Jan, 2018. Should a mistake have been made, they've asked for the person/people concerned to contact them for an urgent refund.

Most media sources have been reporting a third party saying they know one person who has had rent deducted, others have claimed several have. It could be a cock-up, or it could be a case Chinese whispers going on, and perhaps this person was renting privately.

Residents near Grenfell Tower will not have to pay rent, says council

 

[8den]

Yesterday's news.

K&C have already said they have stopped collecting rent for flats in the tower, and for other nearby properties evacuated, because they were dependant on the boiler in the basement of the tower for hot water. They have also said that even when people move back into these properties, no rent will be taken until Jan, 2018. Should a mistake have been made, they've asked for the person/people concerned to contact them for an urgent refund.

Most media sources have been reporting a third party saying they know one person who has had rent deducted, others have claimed several have. It could be a cock-up, or it could be a case Chinese whispers going on, and perhaps this person was renting privately.

Residents near Grenfell Tower will not have to pay rent, says council

I'm not saying it was deliberate, more if it has occurred it's a demonstration of RBKC's continued mismanagement.

 

[DaveCinzano]

There's a jolyon in tintin too

The only Jolyon for me

 

[cupid_stunt]

Sorry for the source, but I reckon it's worth sharing.

Under the heading ‘Legal Statement’, he wrote: ‘You do not have to give a copy of your fire risk assessment to anybody, not even the fire authority, if you do give them a copy this could be used against you at a later date.’

Mr Stokes, who served for many years with Oxfordshire Fire Service, then explained that withholding his report from London Fire Brigade was important because they ‘have the power to undertake an audit of the fire risk assessment to determine if it is suitable and sufficient or not’.

Safety failings at Grenfell Tower in Mr Stokes’s assessment included a failure to test emergency escape lighting, to inspect escape staircases and to maintain fire extinguishers. He wrote in the 2012 report: ‘The fire extinguisher in the basement boiler room, the lift motor room, the ground-floor electrical room plus other areas were out of date, according to the contractor’s label on the extinguishers. Some located in the roof level areas [of Grenfell Tower] had “condemned” written on them in large black writing, with a last test date of 2009 or 2010.

Grenfell safety consultant urged council to hide failings | Daily Mail Online

 

[bluescreen]

Jesus wept.

They're wrong about one thing, though - Stokes's involvement and fee isn't news.
Fire risk assessor for Grenfell Tower revealed

 

[bluescreen]

I don't know: is that sort of caveat standard boilerplate on fire risk assessors' reports? It might be, but it shouldn't be. There should be complete openness and a way of enforcing remedial action.

 

[Casual Observer]

I don't know: is that sort of caveat standard boilerplate on fire risk assessors' reports? It might be, but it shouldn't be. There should be complete openness and a way of enforcing remedial action.

No it isn't. Just had a look at a 13-page FRA for my residential block of flats from 2012. None of that weaselly bollocks in there.

 

[Lurdan]

The Grenfell Tower Fire Risk Assessment for 2012 which the Mail are quoting from has been available as a PDF download on the Grenfell Action Group blog for a couple of weeks.

The Mail are being a little misleading (wot a surprise eh) - this 2012 assessment does go on to spell out the prescribed information that the 'responsible person' is required to make available

(7) The prescribed information is—
a) the significant findings of the assessment, including the measures which
have been or will be taken by the responsible person pursuant to this
Order; and
b) any group of persons identified by the assessment as being especially at
risk.
So legally you have to record any significant findings from the risk assessment if you
fall into the categories of 6 a to c above and have this available to be inspected.

However that doesn't detract from the problems with the Fire Safety (FSO) regime that was introduced in 2005, or the opportunities it leaves open for 'responsible persons' to act irresponsibly.

In social housing the situation is more complex still since the 2005 FSO regime only applies to common parts of buildings not the individual dwellings (although it does apply to the common parts of homes in multiple occupation).

Under the Housing Act 2004 landlords and owners (including leaseholders) are also required to carry out separate fire risk assessments for their dwellings, and in respect to any works carried out on them. Where the Fire and Rescue Services are responsible for enforcement of the FSO regime, its the local authority who are responsible for enforcement in respect of dwellings.

There are also requirements under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 to ensure that all people, including the disabled, can safely leave a building in the event of a fire.

I've no doubt we will learn a lot more about how these things all failed to work at Grenfell Tower.

 

[Pickman's model]

There are also requirements under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 to ensure that all people, including the disabled, can safely leave a building in the event of a fire.

repealed, according to wikipedia, and replaced by the 2010 equality act, except in the 6 counties where it still applies.

 

[Cid]

I don't know: is that sort of caveat standard boilerplate on fire risk assessors' reports? It might be, but it shouldn't be. There should be complete openness and a way of enforcing remedial action.

The wording has a whiff of the pseudo-legal about it... Difficult to say exactly why (probably because it's not 11 paragraphs of obscurity), but it does.

 

[GarveyLives]

The Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea has a 'Director for Housing' called Laura Johnson, who is apparently paid £88,000 p.a.

What exactly does Laura Johnson have to say about this disaster?

Apologies if I have missed the answer.

 

[bluescreen]

Apologies if I have missed the answer.

Not sure there's evidence that she deserves the wagging finger. From the Graun, a propos complaints about new gas pipes:

Laura Johnson, Kensington and Chelsea’s director of housing, complained to the local Labour ward councillor Judith Blakeman in an email on 22 May that “National Grid have been and continue to be a law unto themselves and, despite repeated requests from the TMO to act in a more consultative and collaborative manner with the landlord, this has not taken place”.

The whole article is worth a read. Grenfell Tower gas pipes left exposed, despite fire safety expert's orders

 

[bluescreen]

Or do you mean since the disaster?

 

[Treacle Toes]

What the fuck is going on here?

Mistrust and anger deepen as Grenfell death toll is still unknown

This is a pic of most of that letter. Really fucking odd. No one seemed to have a clue who organised this or posted the letters.

 

[GarveyLives]

Since this disaster, has the council's £88,000 p.a. Director for Housing, Laura Johnson, addressed the public or the media concerning a matter which seems to be related to her responsibilities?

 

[bluescreen]

Since this disaster, has the council's £88,000 p.a. Director for Housing, Laura Johnson, addressed the public or the media concerning a matter which seems to be related to her responsibilities?

No idea. Nothing showing on Google. What's the betting she's getting the same shitty legal advice as the rest of the council? Some lawyer there can't seem to tell the difference between advising the council and advising individuals.

 

[stuff_it]

From the figures I've collated (ive spent way too much time doing it) I don't think the numbers are as high as people are suggesting, unless the reports of subletting with 40 people are true. I've not seen reports from neighbours saying they were aware of large numbers of people staying in one flat and Id have expected to hear that being the case by now as they'd be the ones best replaced to report it. Although obviously this could be wrong.I don't think at this point that "A fireman told me....", is a reliable source of evidence.

If the missing figures were to pan out as the current information I have I think there were possibly 350 people in the building.

FWIW: Nobody below floor 10 is currently listed as missing or deceased, although Im missing 10 flats with any information about who lived there, let alone if they survived or not)

The claim was that 42 people were found in the same flat, not that they all lived there. I got the impression they may have been comforting each other once they realised there was no way down.

 

[stuff_it]

Is that a fact is it? I guess that's in addition to the "dozens of bodies on the roof" mentioned earlier in the thread, or the "scores" of bodies on the stairs?

It really pisses me off when people parrot these rumours as if they are facts, which they aren't.

Quite a few named dead have now been found on the stairs, and quite a few more rescued from the stairwell having been overcome by smoke. Dunno about scores, but it sounds like there were definitely a fair few.

The lack of concrete info is of course going to lead to speculation. And yes, I do believe that the figures are being released slowly on purpose.

 

[Mation]

. They have also said that even when people move back into these properties, no rent will be taken until Jan, 2018. Should a mistake have been made, they've asked for the person/people concerned to contact them for an urgent refund.

They shouldn't have to contact anyone. Write to us, contact us, make a claim. The council needs to look at their systems and sort it the fuck out.

 

[Celyn]

This is a pic of most of that letter. Really fucking odd. No one seemed to have a clue who organised this or posted the letters.

How can it be important to set up this GVST, yet this weird entity is also "highly experienced"?

Nice to see that the setting up of this thing

has been agreed by Authorities

Unfortunate that these "Authorities" are not named (although they do get to be part of the random use of upper case, so perhaps that is intended to indicate how very important the Authorities are).

Dodgy but dodgy and of a dodginess.