Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
because it's not fixable under their terms of reference, it's now just a case of keeping power in Greece.
Greek Parliamentary Election
- Thread starter Red Storm
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Uh-huh.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
And beyond.....
Quite.
What did they think was going to happen when the money runs out?
I think that Greece would be better off defaulting, dropping the euro, and starting again with their own money. Except this time get rid of all the red tape, and also make sure that people pay enough in taxes to pay for whatever social spending you decide to have.
Giles..
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No, pre-crash relative prosperity was based on spending - on spending more than income. And that's true worldwide - historically and right now. And when you don't, guess what happens, have a look at greece for a clue.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
It's difficult to pay taxes if you don't have a job though, and since neoliberal economics considers unemployment a price worth paying, it follows that your brand of politics goes hand-in-hand with deficit spending.
And then a giant asteroid will plunge out of the sky and turn us all into a charcoal briquette....
The plagues......... did I mention the plagues ?
We've got Giles and his predictable, "O" level economics "household budget model" ilk on this thread , but where are all the "back to the Gold standard - end fractional banking" enthusiasts from other comment sites?
One things for sure the blogosphere commentary threads are simply PACKED with smug people who think those "lazy Greeks" had it coming all along for living their "laid back Zorba the Greek lifestyles", and will be licking their lips as children starve in the streets and hospitals can no longer provide even minimal care - henceforth to be referred to as "social welfare reforms".
And then as the ever widening worldwide austerity "treatment" impact on worldwide consumer spending destroys the world market for goods and services , from the UK too of course , and we all totter into the Mother of all World Slumps, maybe some of these kneejerk "hammer the poor - it's gotta do some good" enthusiasts will start to have serious doubts.... but then again . maybe not.
One things for sure the blogosphere commentary threads are simply PACKED with smug people who think those "lazy Greeks" had it coming all along for living their "laid back Zorba the Greek lifestyles", and will be licking their lips as children starve in the streets and hospitals can no longer provide even minimal care - henceforth to be referred to as "social welfare reforms".
And then as the ever widening worldwide austerity "treatment" impact on worldwide consumer spending destroys the world market for goods and services , from the UK too of course , and we all totter into the Mother of all World Slumps, maybe some of these kneejerk "hammer the poor - it's gotta do some good" enthusiasts will start to have serious doubts.... but then again . maybe not.
elbows
Well-Known Member
They've been here in the past and had their asses handed to them.
So, we all spend more than we have, thus running up ever-larger debts, by borrowing off other people.
What happens when the other people cannot or will not lend any more money to the people whose "relative prosperity" has in fact been a myth, paid for by racking up the national credit card?
Its one thing to borrow to fund big projects which will pay back in the end, but year-on-year borrowing just to keep doling out the services that people have come to expect, even when they don't actually want to pay for them, is bound to end in a mess eventually.
Giles..
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Oh for gods sake. What is the multiplier effect giles?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I like the way you concentrate - at first hesitatingly, but now openly - on services, as if borrowing is and can only be based on borrowing for social spending (which, of course is productive in itself) rather than productive investment.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No idea now you ask!
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
jesus this is embarrassingly naive; the reason why you have a mixture of both is that that is the best route to economic growth, short and long term (as well as those services being as desirable end in themselves); and only growth drives unemployment and its' costs down, and job creation (and thereby tax receipts) up. Our current recession is proving that endlessly sucking money out of the economy in the name of 'austerity' is counter-productive.
And the people who should be hit for extra tax to fund thias spending should be wealthy individuals and corporaations, not just as a moral imperative, but because it makes sound economic sense
So what do you think the new Greek government should do now?
Stay in the Euro, borrow more and more money to pay back other loans, while imposing drastic cutbacks on their own people?
Leave the Euro, tell the lenders that they cannot and will not pay them back, and start again with a new drachma, and live off their own resources and efforts?
Something else?
Giles..
Stay in the Euro, borrow more and more money to pay back other loans, while imposing drastic cutbacks on their own people?
Leave the Euro, tell the lenders that they cannot and will not pay them back, and start again with a new drachma, and live off their own resources and efforts?
Something else?
Giles..
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Kill the landlords - the people should do that.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
oh jesus. I f countries 'lived within their means' in the manner you sugghest, there would NEVER be economic growth - tax receipts would fall - the costs of recession and unemployment would rise - and all you would do is further impoverish the nation.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
having said all this, I am increasingly convinced that Greece will ultimately default
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
just on general principles, like.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What suggestion? You've not even grasped the gap between austerity and euro, and then your one proposal is to do what they're doing now - the thing helping to fuck it up - but in their own currency. Do you see why people don't want to bother with you?
That said the depth of your research and the extent of your worked out proposals nearly turned my head.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Nationalise the banks; default on the national debt; leave the Euro; use the central bank to implement a private debt 'jubilee' as advocated by Steve Keen; roll out a nation-wide public works programme to get people back into employment; reap in the tax returns and end up with a budget surplus.
Sounds good to me! Better than staying in the Euro and borrowing themselves into an ever-deeper pit.
Maybe the whole world should have a debt jubilee? Start again with a clean sheet of paper?
Giles..
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Cut up the credit card, tighten the belts, it's sawdust and custard from now on.
Reductionistic and predictable. Well done.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How will this happen? What processes need to be put in place?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Ah, but I can't borrow billions, like a state can. "'ere, lend us a trillion, I want to buy a car and a flat screen telly".
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
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