General election, the urban75 vote

[pengaleng]

if i had a pound for every time i'd been told 'the fascists are coming' i'd have enough for a sizeable meal at a very good restaurant.

liberal fearmongering thats all that is, they learnt it off the feminists

 

[pengaleng]

who draws cocks on their ballot papers???? the table has always seemed more apt.

 

[redsquirrel]

I actually cannot believe that in a time when we are literally witnessing the rise of fascism in Europe again, there are people here on these boards wittering on about safe seats, community volunteering, and 'them all being the same' as a reason not to vote.

Did Le Pen not frighten you? Does Trump not frighten you? Is Corbyn the same as Nuttal? Is Farron the same as Le Pen?

Wake up for fuck sake. The fascists are coming. Stop drawing spunking cocks and put your big boy pants on.

1) The fascists aren't coming, or at least we aren't going to see fascists governments in the short/medium term.
2) You've not actually addressed a single reason that people have given you for not voting, you've just called them idiots and told them (wrongly) they're letting the Tories in

I actually voted this time around for the first time in a decade but quite frankly your posts on this thread make me wish I had drawn a cock. Finger wagging rubbish of the worst sort.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'll be voting this time (for reasons I've outlined elsewhere). But in the past I have abstained from Westminster elections. And I've explained why if asked. But I haven't got any time for people who say "if you don't vote you can't complain" or "if you do vote you can't complain". People make their own decisions for whatever reasons they think are pressing in their situation.

But let's not fall into the trap of thinking the act of electing is politics. It isn't.

 

[killer b]

You are casting your vote for a candidate who is pitching himself as the natural choice for pragmatic Tories. He's offering more of the same, not an alternative.

Part of Farron's pitch last night was to say the Lib Dems would use whatever influence they had to temper Tory policies (I forget the exact wording) - considering that's their story on what they did in coalition (we all know they were more deeply involved than that), that looked to me like a clear wink that they'd go right back into coalition with the tories if they held the balance of power.

 

[DotCommunist]

you people. Now I've got an image of farron standing over someone he has twatted with one of those big family bibles with the metal edges asking 'who's the daddy now?'

 

[Pickman's model]

you people. Now I've got an image of farron standing over someone he has twatted with one of those big family bibles with the metal edges asking 'who's the daddy now?'

before he has to hurry back to class before teacher notices.

 

[pengaleng]

Part of Farron's pitch last night was to say the Lib Dems would use whatever influence they had to temper Tory policies (I forget the exact wording) - considering that's their story on what they did in coalition (we all know they were more deeply involved than that), that looked to me like a clear wink that they'd go right back into coalition with the tories if they held the balance of power.

which is why no one should recognise them and the party should die, they shouldf have at least fucking re-branded themselves after that fuck up, new name, new colour etc, fuckin idiots

 

[Pickman's model]

which is why no one should recognise them and the party should die, they shouldf have at least fucking re-branded themselves after that fuck up, new name, new colour etc, fuckin idiots

all the good colours are taken and they'd have to be the brown party

 

[pengaleng]

all the good colours are taken and they'd have to be the brown party

if the shoe fits then wear it

and if they got a problem with that then they shouldnt have fucked it up so fucking royally should they.

 

[danny la rouge]

The rise of Le Pen and the rest is caused by liberalism.

It's vital we stop the liberals.

 

[pengaleng]

and fyi i dont actually like corbyn and think hes a wasteman looking for a concensus that wont ever come, gonna vote for the party just cus i hate the tories, because i dont wanna get sacked and because the others are all so waste they have literally zero scope for achievement, hopefully after they can sort out a better party leader and start making themselves better

if anyone has info on the labour plans to reg the banking industry further etc I'd appreciate you saying cus I am investment class now, I gotta protect that, i should vote tory really, so thoroughly going against me new peers

tomorrow i prob wont be arsed about voting again and trying to sell me vote, but atm thats not the story

anyone who hates investments wont be invited to me fat mansion party when me shares float btw, no free champagne for you, fuck off back to yer caravan park and yer special brew. (artisan cyder)

 

[pengaleng]

It's vital we stop the liberals.

it actually is, they are fucking batshit.

 

[pengaleng]

how the fuck people can even look at greens or lib dems and think to themselves 'yes they look like the most suitable candidate for the job' is fuckin beyond me

 

[Edie]

So on the one hand you think there is no rise of fascism, and Le Pen and Nuttal are a figment of the imagination.

On the other you blame the Liberal Democrats for the rise of fascism.

Also I couldn't give two shits what Farron thinks about gay sex. Who the fuck cares for goodness sake.

 

[pengaleng]

not imagination, caused by neo-liberalisim

blaming liberals for rise of fascisim, not lib dems

nice twist.

 

[bi0boy]

Farron reminds me of Simon Pegg. Whenever he speaks I assume I am watching a comedy and wait for the bit I am supposed to laugh, but it never arrives.

 

[killer b]

Tbf to him he had a couple of half decent zingers last night. Poor delivery though, should have got pegg in to do those bits.

 

[pengaleng]

i dont even know who this geezer is

 

[eoin_k]

So 66.5% of Urban plan to vote Labour, with none of the alternatives making it into double figures (perhaps a slight exaggeration as spoilt ballot and abstain amount to the same thing and some of the other parties will benefit from tactical voting, but still)... That seems a bit unprecedented.

 

[free spirit]

To be honest, I genuinely didn't think Alex Sobel stood much of a chance. I very well may vote Labour in that case.

@freespirit what do you know about Alex Sobel?

Alex Sobel is one of the better Labour guys, he's been a councillor for a while, is something like their environment rep or is on the environment sub committee, either way he's pretty good on the environment side and pretty friendly with the Greens (unlike some of his colleagues). I think he lives just over the border in Meanwood, kids go to Headingley Wood Craft Folk group and he helps out with the camps etc. so he's not exactly estranged from the area as Greg's making out - he's been chair of the CLP since before the last election so isn't just being parachuted back in. Also on the left of Labour, defo a corbynite, but also pro staying in the EU.

I can't say to vote for him because that could get me kicked out of the Green Party, but if you're not going to vote Green then........

 

[free spirit]

So on the one hand you think there is no rise of fascism, and Le Pen and Nuttal are a figment of the imagination.

On the other you blame the Liberal Democrats for the rise of fascism.

Also I couldn't give two shits what Farron thinks about gay sex. Who the fuck cares for goodness sake.

The tories have seen off the rise of true fascism, unfortunately they've done it by adopting a signficant portion of their policies.

 

[butchersapron]

This thread today, lordy.

 

[Edie]

1) The fascists aren't coming, or at least we aren't going to see fascists governments in the short/medium term.
2) You've not actually addressed a single reason that people have given you for not voting, you've just called them idiots and told them (wrongly) they're letting the Tories in

I actually voted this time around for the first time in a decade but quite frankly your posts on this thread make me wish I had drawn a cock. Finger wagging rubbish of the worst sort.

Out of interest, why do you say the fascists aren't rising? Cos to me it very much seems like they are. What is the National Front in France if not a fascist party? Farage/Nuttall here? Or Trump's approach to minorities and the media? Is the Far Right not rising all across Europe in different guises?

Genuine question, cos I just thought it was a given that people saw that. Yet it's been pooh poohed on this thread as ridiculous by the pengaleng/pickman double act.

Doesn't seem ridiculous to me to be scared of fascism. Seems stupid not to be ('Trumps a pussycat' meaningless waffle). Trumps a dangerous man if your not a white American Christian.

Fair point by stethoscope about liberalism being behind the rise of fascism. The not redistributing the wealth enough certainly is.

 

[Orang Utan]

Alex Sobel is one of the better Labour guys, he's been a councillor for a while, is something like their environment rep or is on the environment sub committee, either way he's pretty good on the environment side and pretty friendly with the Greens (unlike some of his colleagues). I think he lives just over the border in Meanwood, kids go to Headingley Wood Craft Folk group and he helps out with the camps etc. so he's not exactly estranged from the area as Greg's making out - he's been chair of the CLP since before the last election so isn't just being parachuted back in. Also on the left of Labour, defo a corbynite, but also pro staying in the EU.

I can't say to vote for him because that could get me kicked out of the Green Party, but if you're not going to vote Green then........

I went to that woodcraft group!

Didn't Sobel get caught fibbing twice about Mulholland in campaign literature?

 

[Edie]

Alex Sobel is one of the better Labour guys, he's been a councillor for a while, is something like their environment rep or is on the environment sub committee, either way he's pretty good on the environment side and pretty friendly with the Greens (unlike some of his colleagues). I think he lives just over the border in Meanwood, kids go to Headingley Wood Craft Folk group and he helps out with the camps etc. so he's not exactly estranged from the area as Greg's making out - he's been chair of the CLP since before the last election so isn't just being parachuted back in. Also on the left of Labour, defo a corbynite, but also pro staying in the EU.

I can't say to vote for him because that could get me kicked out of the Green Party, but if you're not going to vote Green then........

Cheers. Woodcraft Folk Group lol. Sounds like I'd prefer Greg if I was gonna vote on personality alone. At least you know where you stand with Greg. Bit of an arsey bellend but at least has some substance.

 

[killer b]

I don't think he is who he says he is. I don't think he's this 'genuinely nice principled guy', he supported the IRA in the 80s ffs. For a starter. He didn't just 'want to talk to them'.

I just read this article on this particular topic, which seems fairly even handed (written by someone from Novara so clearly a left-wing perspective mind) - worth reading IMO.

Seymour's piece here is worth a read too.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yet it's been pooh poohed on this thread as ridiculous by the pengaleng/pickman double act.

as you saw with the bnp, there is a certain vote there. but there are structural obstacles for a fascist party in the uk, not least the reliance of a small number of donors and disruption to the party when they leave, the difficulty of attracting candidates of a reasonable calibre, the tendency of far-right groups to split along personality lines...

there is tho a view that the auld liberal order of the post-war era is coming to and end, as expressed in a recent article, 'the coming illiberal order':

so something may be coming. or it may not. or it may get overtaken by events, e.g. the general war of the mid-2020s.

 

[Edie]

Not convinced pickmans. The rise of fascism isn't just within one political party like the BNP. I meant the rise in popularity of fascist views. Some of which may start being associated with a small more extreme party, like say the BNP or UKIP, but which get taken up and normalised.

18 months ago not many would of predicted Brexit, or Trump. Five years ago, who would of thought that UKIPs immigration policy would actually be being seriously debated and included in part in the manifestos of Tory and Labour. Their ideas have become mainstream, and whilst you can't say that being anti immigration is fascist, there's not always a long jump from one to other. As Nuttal showed on that debate last night.

So you and penaleng laughing about how unlikely it is that fascism is coming. You laugh. I'm not. Cos isn't that how history shows it happens. It creeps up in the shadows of anger and recession and political exclusion of the people, then suddenly, it's there. Believed.

I dunno. Maybe I am talking shit. Seemed a bit of a close call in France tho for my liking.

 

[pengaleng]

it's like weed being a gateway drug

the ideas have had to become mainstream as it's quite a lot of voters (poor peoples) concerns, voters they risk alienating and losing due to not wanting to discuss the elephant.

brexit happened.

it's not facisim being unlikely I am laughing at, it's about the total blinding utterly paralysing fear people have of it like it cannot be fought. if it comes then fight it. whats the point of the worry, where does it get you? what does it achieve? living in fear is weird and I'm right to laugh.