Gammon is not racist
- Thread starter likesfish
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Surely it’s blindingly obvious I was placing the same sentiment in a different context to make a point.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Is it? Have you read their creation myths?
I'm not pretending I can solve the problem of racism in the world here. But neither can you with your definitions. And I think your definitions are massively unhelpful.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
You mean like a dog that's come out of the rain but not lay in front of a fire?
Or is just laying in front of a fire?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
More like a dog that's been out in some mild drizzle, lying near a radiator that's not been on for very long.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Apologies if I'm repeating someone else, but I haven't read the whole thread, and I'm not sure I want to...but there certainly seems to be a class element.
Complicated because it's not about relationship to the means of production but about generational ideas of cultural capital.
...and ultimately (as I said last time) I'm less worried about what "gammon" is saying about them and more worried about what it saying about us.
But then I'm not sure there is an us - in practice - at the moment.
And that's the problem.
Complicated because it's not about relationship to the means of production but about generational ideas of cultural capital.
...and ultimately (as I said last time) I'm less worried about what "gammon" is saying about them and more worried about what it saying about us.
But then I'm not sure there is an us - in practice - at the moment.
And that's the problem.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Good point. Unlike the ugly term "chav", where that's used to denigrate people because of their class. Gammon could refer to those who can get away with their racist shtick and in some cases be elevated to alt-right heroes, politicians or celebrities with ever increasing twitter/online support. Whereas the victim of racist abuse fades into obscurity or is subjected to tirades of whataboutery.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
No, but that's missing the point. He's been violent to her and she's been violent to him. Her violence may well have been justifiable but it was still violence.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
If you mean class as in the guy who subjected a fellow passenger to racist abuse, apparently he's a posh dude.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
No. That's exactly what I don't mean.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Ok, my bad then. I don't understand cultural capital, if that's the focus.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
No, that IS the point. What she does is not, in any meaningful sense, domestic abuse, despite superficial similarities. Same applies to gammon, the similarities are just superficial.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I agree it's not domestic abuse but again, that's not the point. If a black guy was racially abused by an Indian and he responded by calling him a paki, would that not be racist?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I'm not at all sure how many modern NoI followers wholly agree with Elijah Mohammed's nonsense. Overwhelmingly, they are just reacting to racism, from white people.
I haven't actually offered any 'definition', by the way, so I'm not sure how they can be unhelpful.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
So it is possible to be prejudiced against someone because of their race and not be being racist? I really don't think that is in any way helpful.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
So she is a domestic abuser?
Ignoring the aspect that power plays in these circumstances makes these 'definitions' all but worthless.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes you have. Your whole line of posting is suggesting that someone from a minority racial group cannot be racist towards someone from a majority racial group. cos power.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
It's quiet simple, racism is more than mere prejudice.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
No, apologies, you missed my edit.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you wouldn't
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
So now I've 'suggested', not 'defined' you really are incredibly loose with your definitions, and it is THAT which is unhelpful.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
If a person can be prejudiced towards entire races without being racist, I would suggest that it is very far from simple. Sound mightily confused to me. And unhelpful.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Yep. Seen it happen a few times during my time in London. Once to a friend of mine, who was called a monkey by an Indian woman. Friend didn't do any better by telling her to go back to India
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Now you're just being disingenuous.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
It's not racist, it's understandable but just a bit shit. The noble task of insulting reactionary cunts is undermined once you mix a reference to the insultee's ethnicity, gender, age, nationality, physical appearance or characteristics, sexuality, etc etc, with your insult.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Naah, what is unhelpful is an analysis that doesn't look at the the social and power structures in play, that abstracts everything out as if all circumstances are the same. Which leads us straight to the useless 'why can't we all be nice to each other?'
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the ultimate conclusion to every argument littlebabyjesus unhelpfully advances
This suggests that only white people have access to those power structures by virtue of being white. I thought you did class politics?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
And where have I denied an analysis. You seem to want the whole thing to be encapsulated in one two-syllable word. It can't be.
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