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Gammon is not racist

lucillemara said:
Imperialism leaves behind germs of rot which we must clinically detect and remove from our land but from our minds as well. - Fanon

The problem of the twenty-first century, then, is the problem of the color-blind. This problem is simple: it believes that to redress racism, we need to not consider race in social practice, notably in the sphere of governmental action. The state, we are told, must be above race. ... We are led to believe that racism is prejudicial behavior of one party against another rather than the coagulation of socioeconomic injustice against groups. If the state acts without prejudice (this is, if it acts equally), then that is proof of the end of racism. Unequal socioeconomic conditions of today, based as they are on racisms of the past and of the present, are thereby rendered untouchable by the state. Color-blind justice privatizes inequality and racism, and it removes itself from the project of redistributive and anti-racist justice. This is the genteel racism of our new millennium. - Prashad
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yeh but what do you think?
 
lucillemara said:
because whiteness is inherently violent and would not exist without the need to justify the congenital inferiority of colonised and subjugated populations
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There are 3 problems that I would highlight here:

1. This is a sweeping statement that unless you contextualize properly is likely to receive challenge. Can you do that?
2. Have your studies detected a link/an overlap/some interconnection/some liminality between the development of the market economy, the interests of international or haute finance and imperialism/colonialism?

Could we even suggest that there were limits to the subjugation, for example where it might threaten the interests of the unfettered market economy or for example where those benefiting from it were, in fact, PoC?

3. Can I honestly suggest that instead of firing off accusations you calm down and debate with people here. Whilst there are some bellends on here there are also a lot of posters who could help develop and deepen your understanding and offer different perspectives for you to think about. That's not meant to be patronising by the way.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Nobody here is offended. If you think they are, you misread the situation.

Also, advisable to take note of what happened earlier in the thread - don't assume you know the race of the posters here. You're likely to fall on your face if you do that.
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There is a good deal of pearl-clutching though.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
There are 3 problems that I would highlight here:

1. This is a sweeping statement that unless you contextualize properly is likely to receive challenge. Can you do that?
2. Have your studies detected a link/an overlap/some interconnection/some liminality between the development of the market economy, the interests of international or haute finance and imperialism/colonialism?

Could we even suggest that there were limits to the subjugation, for example where it might threaten the interests of the unfettered market economy or for example where those benefiting from it were, in fact, PoC?

3. Can I honestly suggest that instead of firing off accusations you calm down and debate with people here. Whilst there are some bellends on here there are also a lot of posters who could help develop and deepen your understanding and offer different perspectives for you to think about. That's not meant to be patronising by the way.
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1. I don't know, what are the standards
2. a) yes but I don't know enough about it b) of course, "honorary whites" etc
3. I honestly thought most people would be beyond this colour blind nonsense, it's disappointing to see
 
Athos said:
I'm interested in that point, and some if the others you've made. But you seem to skip from one to another, with little coherence.

What's the central point you're trying to make? It's it that people who are considered white (at a given time and place) cannot be victims of racism, because racism requires more than racial predjudice; to be a victim of racism requires being part of a group that is oppressed on racial grounds because of structural power differentials (regardless of relative individual power dynamics in the specific incident)?
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That's pretty much it.
 
lucillemara said:
yes. what I'm trying to say doesn't originate from white people, but I'm obviously not the best person to be putting it across and only did so because no one else seemed to be doing it
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So can a white person be racist towards white people?

This bloke has made statements that if said by a PoC would undoubtedly be racist and at least one that would be legally actionable.
 
lucillemara said:
yes. what I'm trying to say doesn't originate from white people, but I'm obviously not the best person to be putting it across and only did so because no one else seemed to be doing it
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One mistake you're making is thinking that either one understands the things you've been saying or one has a simple definition of the word racism that doesn't itself incorporate all that. Unless you define 'racist' as something that, in our society at least, a black person cannot be towards a white person, you don't understand the origins and causes of racism. Do you honestly think you've been posting revelatory insight to people here?
 
lucillemara said:
yes. what I'm trying to say doesn't originate from white people, but I'm obviously not the best person to be putting it across and only did so because no one else seemed to be doing it
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next time you think you see a similar space, think once, think twice, and consider that from the evidence on this thread the auld adage 'if you want a job done properly do it yourself' doesn't apply.
 
Spymaster said:
So can a white person be racist towards white people?
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only if the victim's relationship whiteness is ambiguous and conditional, eg. irish, italians, ashkenazi jews, slavs, specific types of racism not just anti-white

Athos said:
Please would you expand a bit on what you mean, here?
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the beneficiaries of colonial violence need to separate themselves from their victims and a good way to do that is by asserting their natural superiority in racial terms, the pseudoscience of race describes why certain classes are inherently suited to certain types of labour and deserving or not of violence. this goes back to aristotle but in modern terms European colonialism, slavery and genocide the most important factors.
 
lucillemara said:
only if the victim's relationship whiteness is ambiguous and conditional, eg. irish, italians, ashkenazi jews, slavs, specific types of racism not just anti-white



the beneficiaries of colonial violence need to separate themselves from their victims and a good way to do that is by asserting their natural superiority in racial terms, the pseudoscience of race describes why certain classes are inherently suited to certain types of labour and deserving or not of violence. this goes back to aristotle but in modern terms European colonialism, slavery and genocide the most important factors.
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killing of richard everitt - racist or not?
 
lucillemara said:
no and this obsession with brutality against white people is unseemly and a common theme in fascist discourse

I've also never been a student except for 6th form college so I don't know why that keeps coming up
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i have said nothing about students so that's a lie for a start.

as for richard everitt, the killing was widely considered to be racist. i've got no obsession with brutality against white people (indeed, if you actually read and engaged with what's been said you'd have seen i said that racism against white people on the basis of being white people was rare). could you tell me though on what basis you say 'no'?
 
lucillemara said:
only if the victim's relationship whiteness is ambiguous and conditional, eg. irish, italians, ashkenazi jews, slavs, specific types of racism not just anti-white



the beneficiaries of colonial violence need to separate themselves from their victims and a good way to do that is by asserting their natural superiority in racial terms, the pseudoscience of race describes why certain classes are inherently suited to certain types of labour and deserving or not of violence. this goes back to aristotle but in modern terms European colonialism, slavery and genocide the most important factors.
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Thanks. I'm getting closer to understanding what you're saying. But my biggest question would be what's the political utility of such a conception of racism? How does it undermine that pseudoscience of race?
 
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