Gammon is not racist
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8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Are bacons a ruddy faced Irish subset of gammons?
Danish
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
In it's main use?Urban, where words have other (useless in scope) meanings...
IRL most people understand the word racist to mean holding prejudicial views about others or another, based on their race, ethnicity, or granted, more debatable, country of origin. The power dynamics of a given situation may give context to that racism but the absence of a recognisable power differencial doesn't magic away the racism itself, requiring the victim to choose some other descriptor to please bellends on the internet.
As for Gammon, I don't think it's racist in it's main use. A bit dodgey maybe. But in the context Spymaster has described it, is. This because it has nothing to do with the supposed attitudes of the target, just skin colour.
You seem to be contradicting yourself here, massively. On one hand you're saying that racism is racism, regardless of power dynamics, and you absolutely disagree with it, then you go on to say that racism is ok, because you don't think it's racism? What if the 'gammon' thinks it is racism? Are you making decisions on their behalf? Are you deciding what is and isn't racism? Are you saying I shouldn't get pissed off if someone calls me a paddy?
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Some words live in the margins between definitions.
I don’t think this is a word that helps anyone. We live in days of simplistic soundbites and arguments expressed in 100 characters or less.
If all the left can do is throw slurs back when some elements of the right are sharpening their arguments, we’re frankly fucked. We’re on the verge of losing so much as it is with our stupid habit of only talking among ourselves.
I don’t think this is a word that helps anyone. We live in days of simplistic soundbites and arguments expressed in 100 characters or less.
If all the left can do is throw slurs back when some elements of the right are sharpening their arguments, we’re frankly fucked. We’re on the verge of losing so much as it is with our stupid habit of only talking among ourselves.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
I can't believe people here are condoning the use of racist terms, just because THEY don't believe they're racist.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Which racist terms are people condoning?
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Gammon, when used as a racist term.
No contradiction. Its main use isn’t racist. That use is talking about a group with certain political views and A tendency to get a bit red-faced. and angry.
Of course if someone is having a go at you, making assumptions about you based on you being Irish, they are being racist.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
It's not being used by anyone here as a racist term, though. It's been used to take the piss out of a certain political demographic like the posh actual racist git on Ryanair.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
What about the new 'white power" symbol, which is predominantly used to mean OK. Do we allow that, too?
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Most people here aren't racist, but most people aren't here.
Don’t know anything about that one. But if it’s being used by a white supremacist, yeah it’s racist If it’s being used by someone else unaware of the white power meaning, just to mean okay then there is no racist intent. It might still be perceived as a racist symbol by someone. But the intent is not there.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
But if it's being used as a white power symbol, then it is racist, regardless of whether some people are unaware of it.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Certain people have appropriated the 'gammon' slur, and they're using it as a racial slur. Regardless of its historical (?) definition, it's now being used as a racial slur, and its previous/historic use doesn't negate that fact.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
I think I'm turning into my old man. People talk bollocks and don't make any sense these days. When did '[insert thing here] is a thing' become a worthy substitute for substantive argument?
You never would have seen such obscene behaviour on these boards 5 years ago.
The decline of urban and civilisation more generally is a thing
lucillemara
Member
it's not an argument
where does our contemporary understanding of race come from?
where does our contemporary understanding of race come from?
lucillemara
Member
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
That’s a complex question and no doubt one that undergraduates everywhere are writing 2,000 word essays on. My answer would be from a range of sources but increasingly from postmodern/poststructural thought.
Why?
lucillemara
Member
because ignoring colonialism and imperialism turns racism into people being mean to each other which is useless except to naturalise race and obscure the violence that created it
the influence of postmodernism/poststructuralism is massively overstated
the influence of postmodernism/poststructuralism is massively overstated
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Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I don’t agree with your latter point. We can add the postcolonial academy to the list as well.
As to your first point that’s true generally speaking but who has been doing that on this thread?
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Do people on the receiving end of racism give a shit about the historical reasons for it?
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
lucillemara
Member
it seems to be the favoured definition of most people here, otherwise people wouldn't be so passionate about affirming the existence of racism against white people
I think academic theories are mostly post-hoc and reflect political arrangements that already exist whether in the academy or in society in general
lucillemara
Member
this thread
lucillemara
Member
if you're talking about anti-white sentiment, obviously not as we have seen
otherwise I think many people do
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I am genuinely at a loss to understand how the comments on this thread have led you to conclude that urban posters do not recognise the historical reality of colonialism and imperialism and power relations and the contemporary consequences.
As I’m sure you know, contemporary understandings of race arent linear.
Explain to me then how you’ve drawn this conclusion and what evidence exists for it
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
What would you call the attitude that existed in Britain towards Irish people? The Punch caricatures of Irish people drawn with thickened brows and pot bellies...drunk...and dishevelled? The ads in Windows in the 50s 60s 70s..."No Blacks No Irish"?
Do you think that there was no racism intended because they happened to be white skinned so it couldn't be racism? Or is this all part of the colonial narrative too? Consider that Ireland was no longer a colony in the 50s and 60s and 70s. And yet many Irish immigrants were disdained in Britain by ordinary people. Made fun of because of their accents..or poor appearance.. or just being a "Paddy".
Racism? Or not...? White racism against white people? Or not?
Racism is surely an attitude of superiority over and discrimination against another person based on their race, ethnicity, country of origin, skin colour
..... perhaps racism is any and all the above...?
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