French Presidential elections

[coley]

Ta, though looking at the wiki figures I posted 18% seems towards the higher end.

Why in the world would they take notice when your strategy insulates them from the consequences. Have you got any examples of where voting for the lesser evil worked in that way? Because I think it's pretty obvious that it's precisely because of lesser evilism that social democratic parties have been able to (up to recent times) maintain their electoral grip while selling out their principles.

I would have thought by now they would have had a meaningful look at the political 'direction of Travel' and mebbes decided to avoid the pitchforks and guillotines scenario? Or possibly they think bought and paid for security services will save them and their gated homes and insulated lifestyles?
Hopefully LP will lose, but after seeing Teeside elect Tory mayor, owts possible

 

[Mr Moose]

Will the FN grasp power if the Le Pen wins. Do you actually know what position this election is for?

Has anybody advocated abstaining as an answer?

Again maybe you and Moose should actually read the thread and the links posted on it then you might learn something. At the moment you don't even to seem to know what the election is for.

President of France is a very powerful position. Maybe you need to read up on the powers it has before you take this line with everyone else who are merely arguing it's an important election.

 

[coley]

Very "anarkid", this one, and it will remind you of the good old days here on U75. But it's worth reading:

"Those who fear the election of Marine Le Pen must understand that the French police are already carrying out an effectively fascist program."

May Day 2017 in Paris: A Report from the Streets

France is a country where even the middle classes hate the police, don't forget.

Seems the police return the compliment, looking at thon link it would seem the police are serving a fascist state even before Sunday's results?

 

[redsquirrel]

I would have thought by now they would have had a meaningful look at the political 'direction of Travel' and mebbes decided to avoid the pitchforks and guillotines scenario?

But why would they when what you advocate - "vote to keep out the fascist" (and/or Tory?) - means that they can ignore huge swathes of the electorate?

Argue for "vote to keep out the fascist" if you want, but don't pretend that it doesn't have the effect of sweeping the discontent of so many under the carpet.

 

[coley]

Nobody is saying abstaining is the answer. They're saying the answer lies away from the choices presented at the ballot box.

And those choices are?

 

[redsquirrel]

President of France is a very powerful position.

Has anyone claimed otherwise, but even if Le Pen did become President that does not equal the FN grasping power.

 

[coley]

Why do we have to 'accept' anything?

Lots of very heavily armed state funded persuaders?

 

[Mr Moose]

Has anyone claimed otherwise, but even if Le Pen did become President that does not equal the FN grasping power.

Splitting hairs. They will have grasped power, just not all of it.

But in any case a Macron win is I agree also a defeat.

 

[coley]

jog on with this. Its just a 'white socialists don't care' thing from you, we're all out of date fossilised marxists who will happily game the system even though that means people must suffer. Seriously, do one with that. I've had it enough over brexit. Your short-termism defeats everyone. Your opposition to 'idealistic' radical choices defeats everyone. Leave it out. You'd rather kick it down the road than vote left, and fuck your sadface too. As if it aint the left (of all colours and creeds) these people come for first...

Fair enough, then what "left" do we fucking vote for?
I would really like some fucking direction on this issue!?

 

[DotCommunist]

Fair enough, then what "left" do we fucking vote for?
I would really like some fucking direction on this issue!?

no point really is there? Regulatory capture has now completely taken over the fig leaf of democracy. It really is rip it up and start again at this point. No tomorrows. The mechanisms for limited gains within a flawed system have been systematically knocked aside. We really are left with one solution.

 

[ska invita]

We really are left with one solution.

Proportional representation?

 

[coley]

But why would they when what you advocate - "vote to keep out the fascist" (and/or Tory?) - means that they can ignore huge swathes of the electorate?

Argue for "vote to keep out the fascist" if you want, but don't pretend that it doesn't have the effect of sweeping the discontent of so many under the carpet.

I'm not arguing, I'm looking for an answer, "voting to keep out the fascist" bollocks, it's voting to keep out the 'obvious fascist, while we keep on infiltrating our comfy, acceptable to the comfortable sheeplike population, brand of corporate fascism'
But, for fucksake....outside of here and related sites, is anyone really bothered?
The Romans sussed it out years ago, keep the majority satisfied with 'bread and circuses' .and the ruling class can hammer the vunerable and disspossed with impunity.
Not my problem mate!
Or the cliched, oft quoted Father Niemoller
Or, after the latest Social services/NHS scandal;.. lessons will be learned.
C4, Benefits street.
The DM, the Sun, Fox News, Breibart.
And the lefts answer, the lefts great idea? JC!!!? Nice bloke, with some decent ideas, but?
Fuckiit, socialism and a fair society is soooo last century, and their seems nothing on the horizon to replace it.
.

 

[coley]

no point really is there? Regulatory capture has now completely taken over the fig leaf of democracy. It really is rip it up and start again at this point. No tomorrows. The mechanisms for limited gains within a flawed system have been systematically knocked aside. We really are left with one solution.

Best of luck in starting a movement/party that could "rip it up and start again"
The one solution? Don't be coy? Spell it out?

 

[coley]

Proportional representation?

When do we Want it.......? As soon as you can conveniently arrange it?

 

[DotCommunist]

Best of luck in starting a movement/party that could "rip it up and start again"
The one solution? Don't be coy? Spell it out?

it rhymes with solution. And if the labour party continues its death trajectory while overall turnout continues to fall....well. Who can say. When no one even trusts lab to beg some crumbs from the table anymore...

 

[rekil]

it rhymes with solution.

Rosicrucians

 

[DotCommunist]

 

[coley]

it rhymes with solution. And if the labour party continues its death trajectory while overall turnout continues to fall....well. Who can say. When no one even trusts lab to beg some crumbs from the table anymore...

Not a chance, notice the direction of the plod? the unions? the establishment of well paid hierarchies in all walks/aspects of public services? The establishment of the revolving door?
We are truly buggered and it would take an catastrophe to change the status quo, there are too many JAMs who are terrified of becoming the Missed A Repayment Must Adjust Life And Death expectations, or the lib Dem marmalade variety?

 

[DotCommunist]

Not a chance, notice the direction of the plod? the unions? the establishment of well paid hierarchies in all walks/aspects of public services? The establishment of the revolving door?
We are truly buggered and it would take an catastrophe to change the status quo, there are too many JAMs who are terrified of becoming the Missed A Repayment Must Adjust Life And Death expectations, or the lib Dem marmalade variety?

every revolution was impossible until it was inevitable. The french and the english and yes the russian. However they went after.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

French Presidential favourite Emmanuel Macron's political movement claimed it has been the victim of "massive and co-ordinated hack".

A large trove of emails from the campaign were posted online. They were among around nine gigabytes of data posted by a user called EMLEAKS to Pastebin, a document-sharing site that allows anonymous posting.

Researchers from a Japanese anti-virus firm claim the centrist politician has been targeted by Russian hackers.

Emmanuel Macron's campaign claims to have been victim of massive hacking operation

Hackers Hit Macron With Huge Email Leak Ahead of French Election

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I wonder if the Russians are even going to bother hacking the British election: who would they try to throw it for?

 

[bimble]

hashtag 'macronleaks' is a clusterfuck of 'anti-globalist' cartoon green frogs

 

[Dogsauce]

They've already done the damage they want in Britain. I imagine they would want to inflate whoever looks most likely to damage the EU, which seems to be their agenda (perhaps in response to EU 'meddling' in former soviet states on their doorstep). Weaken and divide the 'enemy' and all that.

 

[bluescreen]

The new twist is that the alleged hackers have larded the alleged hack with allegedly fake emails.

 

[Mr Moose]

I don't think I can handle a world built around such dreary tunes. How about this?

 

[Idris2002]

Proportional representation?

A stiffly worded letter to the papers.

 

[J Ed]

They've already done the damage they want in Britain. I imagine they would want to inflate whoever looks most likely to damage the EU, which seems to be their agenda (perhaps in response to EU 'meddling' in former soviet states on their doorstep). Weaken and divide the 'enemy' and all that.

Who is 'they'? When did this hacking take place in Britain? Can you point to any evidence whatsoever?

 

[Raheem]

A stiffly worded letter to the papers.

Signing up to an internet forum.

 

[Idris2002]

Signing up to an internet forum.

Talking to yourself on the bus.

 

[Raheem]

Talking to yourself on the bus.

Talking to the stranger next to you on the bus, who's clutching tightly to her handbag and trying her best to pretend she doesn't realise you're there.