belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Maybe he's 'extrapolating'
French Presidential elections
- Thread starter gosub
- Start date
bimble
floofy
One or the other of them will form the next government though. That's the reality of this moment, so how can refusing to tick a box to stop Le Pen taking power next week be helpful to anyone apart from le Pen.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
No, one of them will become President. And they will then have to cohabitate with a government made up of other parties.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Life isn't a series of isolated "moments" though. Things come from somewhere and then lead somewhere else.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This isn't an election for the government.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
The president forms the government.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Shockingly, the guardian has a decent piece on the debate on whether to vote or not
'How can you risk handing victory to Le Pen?' The debate splitting French families | Jessica Reed and Flavie Péglion
'How can you risk handing victory to Le Pen?' The debate splitting French families | Jessica Reed and Flavie Péglion
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
No they don't. They choose a PM, and approves ministers, but only from the parties that can command a majority. Thus the June elections become even more important, and why actively endorsing Macron would weaken any possible opposition.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
You just explained how something you claim doesn't happen happens.
That does rather depend on what happens in the GE in the summer.
Edit: IMO, it's the most likely outcome, but worth pointing out that it may not be the case.
CRI
Registered Chooser
Tactical voting may feel grubby, but it can be the least worst option. Sometimes, that can be crucial to avoid the terrible "worst worst" option.
Idealism is fine, but not everyone is in a position where they can prioritise the "long view" over the here and now.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
No I haven't. I've explained why you are grossly oversimplifying the process. A President Le Pen couldn't simply impose a government that she wants.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
No, but she would form the goverment, which is all anyone has said.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
You are using the word 'form' in a way no one else does.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Tactical voting may feel grubby, but it can be the least worst option. Sometimes, that can be crucial to avoid the terrible "worst worst" option.
Idealism is fine, but not everyone is in a position where they can prioritise the "long view" over the here and now.
An incredible post to read from someone who has been smearing people who vote for a third party in the US, or who voted Sanders then went on to vote Clinton. Astonishing dishonesty.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
If I was in France I would probably vote for Macron. If I thought there was a chance Le Pen could win I certainty would. But that is not the same thing as endorsing him or giving him my support as some people are insisting we must. I would not push or 'call' for people to vote for him. The closest thing to my side just lost the election. How others on my side choose to use their vite now is a purely individual choice. there is no one left to vote in favor of.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
You sum it up in the first two lines. The rest is drivel. No one is saying vote in favour of. It's way past that point.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Except Macron is. He is saying - unlike Chirac in 02 - that he wants people to vote for him, not against Le Pen. He will interpret all votes in that way. Given only a quarter of voters actively support him, you can understand why he has to say that, but it also means someone like Melanchon can't endorse him.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Like most of your posts then.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
And his programme will not only fail, it will fail in a way that can very readily be exploited by Mme. Brony. And that's why it would be a very bad idea for those who oppose both her programme, and his, to get into bed with him.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
Poll: Emmanuel Macron's confidence rating stagnates
BAROMETER FIGARO MAGAZINE - The candidate of En marche! Remains second behind Jean-Luc Mélenchon, while Marine Le Pen, fifth, progresses.
At 41%, Emmanuel Macron is still ahead of Jean-Luc Mélenchon, while the former president of the FN wins 5 points (29%), as does his niece Marion Maréchal-Le Pen. The former minister is also making only slight progress to the right. Republican sympathizers are only 39% (+5) to want it to play an important role in the months to come.
A resistance to put in the Ipsos survey which shows that only 20% of voters really want Emmanuel Macron to be elected , 41% of them consider it better for him rather than Marine Le Pen. A weak adhesion that may complicate the beginning of his mandate, in any case deprive him of a state of grace indispensable to any president at the beginning of his five-year term.
A segmentation that illustrates the French fractures
But the most striking remains the segmentation of the confidence rating of Macron and Le Pen. It illustrates blatantly the French fractures of this presidential election. Emmanuel Macron is strong among retirees (50%), executives (52%) and well-off income groups (70%). It does not appeal to the unemployed (29%), employees (25%) and modest income categories (27%). The exact opposite of Marine Le Pen, which is strong among the unemployed (38%), employees (44%) and modest income groups (40%), while not attracting retirees (22%), (15%) or the well-to-do categories (15%).
Sondage : la cote de confiance d'Emmanuel Macron stagne
BAROMETER FIGARO MAGAZINE - The candidate of En marche! Remains second behind Jean-Luc Mélenchon, while Marine Le Pen, fifth, progresses.
At 41%, Emmanuel Macron is still ahead of Jean-Luc Mélenchon, while the former president of the FN wins 5 points (29%), as does his niece Marion Maréchal-Le Pen. The former minister is also making only slight progress to the right. Republican sympathizers are only 39% (+5) to want it to play an important role in the months to come.
A resistance to put in the Ipsos survey which shows that only 20% of voters really want Emmanuel Macron to be elected , 41% of them consider it better for him rather than Marine Le Pen. A weak adhesion that may complicate the beginning of his mandate, in any case deprive him of a state of grace indispensable to any president at the beginning of his five-year term.
A segmentation that illustrates the French fractures
But the most striking remains the segmentation of the confidence rating of Macron and Le Pen. It illustrates blatantly the French fractures of this presidential election. Emmanuel Macron is strong among retirees (50%), executives (52%) and well-off income groups (70%). It does not appeal to the unemployed (29%), employees (25%) and modest income categories (27%). The exact opposite of Marine Le Pen, which is strong among the unemployed (38%), employees (44%) and modest income groups (40%), while not attracting retirees (22%), (15%) or the well-to-do categories (15%).
Sondage : la cote de confiance d'Emmanuel Macron stagne
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
EXCLUSIVE + DOCUMENT - The movement of Emmanuel Macron would drop 249 to 286 deputies in June, according to an OpinionWay - SLPV analytics poll for "Les Echos". The right would have 200-210 seats, the FN would collide with the glass ceiling (15 to 25 seats) and the socialist left (28 to 43) and radical (6 to 8) would be rolled.
Sondage : En Marche donné gagnant des législatives
It is one of the questions of this unprecedented presidency: if Emmanuel Macron, who had never confronted universal suffrage, is elected on Sunday, the French will give him, as traditionally under the Fifth Republic, a majority, The movement is barely celebrating its first candle? According to a poll OpinionWay - SLPV analytics for "Les Echos" and Radio Classique, made for metropolitan areas outside Corsica (ie 535 seats out of 577), En Marche would arrive in the legislative elections of June 11 and 18 to climb to the top of the forces In the National Assembly, with 249 to 286 seats.
Approaching the absolute majority (290 seats). The right and center (LR and UDI) would collect 200 to 210 seats - roughly the level of 2012 - thus failing to impose cohabitation. The FN could form a group, with 15 to 25 deputies. But with 300 candidates who could pass the first round, it would still clash with the glass ceiling of the second. As for the PS, with 28 to 43 seats, it would be rolled, crushed by En Marche. The left front would get 6 to 8 deputies.
Sondage : En Marche donné gagnant des législatives
It is one of the questions of this unprecedented presidency: if Emmanuel Macron, who had never confronted universal suffrage, is elected on Sunday, the French will give him, as traditionally under the Fifth Republic, a majority, The movement is barely celebrating its first candle? According to a poll OpinionWay - SLPV analytics for "Les Echos" and Radio Classique, made for metropolitan areas outside Corsica (ie 535 seats out of 577), En Marche would arrive in the legislative elections of June 11 and 18 to climb to the top of the forces In the National Assembly, with 249 to 286 seats.
Approaching the absolute majority (290 seats). The right and center (LR and UDI) would collect 200 to 210 seats - roughly the level of 2012 - thus failing to impose cohabitation. The FN could form a group, with 15 to 25 deputies. But with 300 candidates who could pass the first round, it would still clash with the glass ceiling of the second. As for the PS, with 28 to 43 seats, it would be rolled, crushed by En Marche. The left front would get 6 to 8 deputies.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Exactly, it's all fluff. He has to claim a mandate, like TM will when really it's only Brexits. Nothing to stop the left having a massive demo the next day under the banner 'We only did because we had to. Expect a fight'.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
You might think twice if you were a public service worker.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Will the FN grasp power if the Le Pen wins. Do you actually know what position this election is for?
Has anybody advocated abstaining as an answer?
Again maybe you and Moose should actually read the thread and the links posted on it then you might learn something. At the moment you don't even to seem to know what the election is for.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I guess my general position is that to effectively combat the likes of the FN requires winning arguments and taking action at the base (community, workplace etc.) and that whatever you choose to do at (or in relation to) the ballot box should at best support this activity and at worst not damage it.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
jog on with this. Its just a 'white socialists don't care' thing from you, we're all out of date fossilised marxists who will happily game the system even though that means people must suffer. Seriously, do one with that. I've had it enough over brexit. Your short-termism defeats everyone. Your opposition to 'idealistic' radical choices defeats everyone. Leave it out. You'd rather kick it down the road than vote left, and fuck your sadface too. As if it aint the left (of all colours and creeds) these people come for first...
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