French Presidential elections

[gentlegreen]

I thought "paysan" was a term of affection in France ?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'll just leave this here...

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Macron is better for Brexit, the fewer countries murmuring about leaving the EU the less harshly the EU needs to slap down the UK.

 

[DotCommunist]

Macron is better for Brexit, the fewer countries murmuring about leaving the EU the less harshly the EU needs to slap down the UK.

its no good for the EU in the long term, after hammer-of-the-unions public sector slasher and all round wanker macron has impoverished the average frenchman, who then do they vote for? both melenchon and le pen want drastic renegotiation or out

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

its no good for the EU in the long term, after hammer-of-the-unions public sector slasher and all round wanker macron has impoverished the average frenchman, who then do they vote for? both melenchon and le pen want drastic renegotiation or out

By then we'll be begging on the streets of Beijing, so not really our problem.

 

[Sue]

I thought "paysan" was a term of affection in France ?

I've only ever heard it used to refer to someone (factually) as a farmer or (pejoratively) as a bumpkin. Not to say it's not used affectionately (I've no idea) but suspect it's one to be very careful of. And your initial post sounded kind of sneary in English. (It's the 1st of May, workers/unions demonstrate. Happens every year!)

 

[bluescreen]

I've only ever heard it used to refer to someone (factually) as a farmer or (pejoratively) as a bumpkin. Not to say it's not used affectionately (I've no idea) but suspect it's one to be very careful of. And your initial post sounded kind of sneary in English. (It's the 1st of May, workers/unions demonstrate. Happens every year!)

In the neck of the woods I know a little, the farmers call themselves "agriculteurs".

 

[Sue]

In the neck of the woods I know a little, the farmers call themselves "agriculteurs".

I've also heard 'cultivateur'. Suspect the different words used to indicate differences in who owned/worked on the land but not sure of the subtleties or if these subtleties even still exist.

 

[bluescreen]

I've also heard 'cultivateur'. Suspect the different words used to indicate differences in who owned/worked on the land but not sure of the subtleties or if these subtleties even still exist.

I think that's right. Agriculteur is probably the owner/farmer of arable land as opposed to a livestock farmer, who is a fermier, and the people employed (not many tbh round our way) are called by their job titles eg chauffeur/conducteur. I reckon 'paysan' is about as tactful these days as calling a waiter 'garçon'. /OT

 

[hot air baboon]

Mélenchon's lot are calling it a choice between "la peste ou le choléra"

its difficult not to harbour the suspicion that this non-choice was the plan all along to engineer a 2nd round shoo-in of the prodigal son, much like the Dems in the US initially wanted to boost Trump to the nomination - hence Fillon being conveniently taken out by the dirty tricks brigade - if so its worked like a charm so far

 

[redsquirrel]

Mélenchon's lot are calling it a choice between "la peste ou le choléra"

And? You agree? Disagree? Make a point.

 

[gentlegreen]

There seems to be quite an overlap between Le Pen and Melenchon when it comes to their opinion of Macron "Hollande mk. 2" ...

 

[redsquirrel]

Again what's your point? That that's incorrect? That Mélenchon is really a racist? What?

 

[hot air baboon]

However, after remaining silent for a week, the hard-Left firebrand finally came out on Sunday to urge his supporters not to vote for Ms Le Pen.

"I say to anyone who is listening: do not make the terrible error of voting for the Front National because you would push the country towards a general conflagration and the ending to which no-one can predict," he said on the TF1 television channel.

from the telegraph

 

[redsquirrel]

its difficult not to harbour the suspicion that this non-choice was the plan all along to engineer a 2nd round shoo-in of the prodigal son, much like the Dems in the US initially wanted to boost Trump to the nomination - hence Fillon being conveniently taken out by the dirty tricks brigade - if so its worked like a charm so far

This bloke makes that exact claim in this piece

I asked him if had there been a deliberate effort among intellectuals and mainstream politicians to engineer a run-off between Macron and the far-right Marine Le Pen in the second round of the presidential election. “Why, of course,” he laughed. “We’ve been at it for a year.” Considering how obvious the strategy had been, I cannot claim to have revealed much of a secret. Still, it’s nice to know I was not being paranoid.

No names so who knows what it's worth.

an opinion poll showed that the main concern of the people was neither unemployment nor immigration, but the reform of state institutions and the implementation of a radical sixth republic. There is a deep resentment towards a state they perceive as oppressive, corrupt and violent.

 

[Idris2002]

This bloke makes that exact claim in this piece

No names so who knows what it's worth.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[bimble]

he's probably right.

 

[gentlegreen]

Obama has come out publicly backing Macron.

 

[J Ed]

Obama has come out publicly backing Macron.

'With Le Pen France goes right to the back of the queue!'

 

[Mr Moose]

And? You agree? Disagree? Make a point.

Dangerous posturing. They (the left) are mental if they don't vote for Macron. The degree of danger from Le Pen is quite profound.

 

[Pickman's model]

Dangerous posturing. They (the left) are mental if they don't vote for Macron. The degree of danger from Le Pen is quite profound.

do you often think people who don't act as you'd wish are mentally ill?

 

[stethoscope]

Dangerous posturing. They (the left) are mental if they don't vote for Macron. The degree of danger from Le Pen is quite profound.

So, 'the left' actually has no political meaning or ideology anymore. You have to vote for the neoliberal otherwise you're automatically a fascist enabler. Good grief.

 

[stavros]

he's probably right.
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Is that not meddling in another country's political process? Bloody Brussels wonk.

 

[redsquirrel]

Dangerous posturing. They (the left) are mental if they don't vote for Macron. The degree of danger from Le Pen is quite profound.

Right, how so?

And how should Mélenchon behave? Should he not criticise Macron? Should he say that he thinks the people should for Macron? Or that people that don't vote for Macron are racists/Le Pen proxies? What action are you actually demanding "the left" should take?

 

[redsquirrel]

'With Le Pen France goes right to the back of the queue!'

Maybe he can give a speech to the French bankers and get himself another $400,000.

 

[redsquirrel]

Anyway now Macron has "filed a formal complaint" (whatever that actually means, fucking Guardian) against Le Pen.

Emmanuel Macron, the independent centrist who is favourite to become the next president of France, has filed a formal complaint following remarks by his far-right rival Marine Le Pen during a live TV debate on Wednesday night implying that he had an offshore account in the Caribbean.

A member of Macron’s entourage said the campaign would “not hesitate to prosecute for defamation” anyone who repeated the claims in public.

Although amazing Giles Fraser has actually come out with a reasonable piece

There was a time, not so very long ago, when it was widely accepted that the job of the left was to explain how free-market capitalism is bad for the poor and bad for social cohesion more generally.

The EU debate, now breaking out all over Europe, has flushed out the extent to which the so-called left, now overrun by liberalism, has largely abandoned this historical position. In this country, the liberal left now believes that support for the single market and economic free trade is the very thing that distinguishes them from a so-called hard Tory Brexit.

Perhaps a word about terminology is helpful, because liberalism is a slippery idea. Liberals are distinguished above all by their belief in freedom – the freedom to be who you want to be (social liberalism) and the freedom to make and keep as much money as you want (economic liberalism) existing on the same continuum. As much as possible, the state should not stand in the way of, or make any sort of judgment about, the wants and desires of free individuals. But what liberals don’t see, or don’t want to see, is that their little individual freedoms are also collectively responsible for the boarded-up shops of Walsall and the disintegration of communities such as mine in south London.

 

[Mr Moose]

So, 'the left' actually has no political meaning or ideology anymore. You have to vote for the neoliberal otherwise you're automatically a fascist enabler. Good grief.

Essentially yes. That's how weak a position we currently work from.

 

[Mr Moose]

Right, how so?

And how should Mélenchon behave? Should he not criticise Macron? Should he say that he thinks the people should for Macron? Or that people that don't vote for Macron are racists/Le Pen proxies? What action are you actually demanding "the left" should take?

Of course he can criticise Macron. He can use every lever against him once he is in.

What are you hoping for if Le Pen gets in? All out civil war? Because if someone does not vote against her she will.

 

[Mr Moose]

do you often think people who don't act as you'd wish are mentally ill?

Silly. But it's a somewhat delusional frame of mind to consider abstaining at this point has any possible value.

 

[bimble]

I saw a survey last week suggesting that just over half of the people intending to vote for Macron say they'll be doing it to stop le pen, not out of positive choice. It's the nose holders who will stop her from winning (hopefully).

 

[Raheem]

And how should Mélenchon behave? Should he not criticise Macron? Should he say that he thinks the people should for Macron? Or that people that don't vote for Macron are racists/Le Pen proxies? What action are you actually demanding "the left" should take?

tbf, he didn't handle it brilliantly. It's important to most of his supporters (those that agree with his stance and those who don't), and he should have had a clear and agreed position on the day of the vote, instead of seemingly going off his own bat and then spending the next week clarifying and backsliding. And, IMO, he should have immediately at least done what it took him about a week to do, which is ask his supporters in clear terms not to vote for Le Pen, considering that there seems to be a sizable minority of them that are considering it.

I don't think Mélenchon's position is immoral, but it should be noted that he was happy to endorse Chirac in 2002.