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French Presidential elections

bimble said:
The second thing you're quoting was published before he said that people should not vote for le Pen .
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How does that make any difference when the criticism of him is for not endorsing Macron?

And he's always been clear that he opposes any vote for the FN.
 
ok. Just that i really don't think she'd have written that thing after he came out and very clearly said please people do not vote for le Pen. She wrote it before he made that clear statement against the NF today.
 
No, that's complete and utter rubbish. Either you haven't read the piece or you haven't understood it. She specifically criticises him FOR NOT ENDORSING Macron. Saying no to the FN is not good enough for her, you must argue for a vote for Macron, she even says
The hard-left candidate, Jean-Luc Mélenchon, has, as yet, refused to endorse Macron. This is because he needs – in a move that further reduces the hard-left to its own self-parody – to consult the wishes of his supporters first. Yes, that’s right, he absolutely must have a collective debate about whether or not to endorse the candidate who has, as two of her closest advisers, associates of an unrepentant former SS member. Way to maintain the socialist dream!
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It is utterly clear that not voting for Le Pen is not what she is criticising.
 
Why is it always the left which is told to fall into line and vote for the neoliberal candidate but apparently it is just fine for many of those same neoliberals within the Labour Party to advocate voting for parties other than Labour because Corbyn is leader?
 
ok, really not up for getting into this tbh , I do get what you're saying but also admit to having a lot of difficulty around the whole thing of people abstaining instead of holding their noses if this were to be a close run election, which luckily it seems to not be by all predictions.
 
And that makes you unable/unwilling to read the Freeman piece correctly does it. For gods sake just read a piece before you post something about it.
 
bimble said:
ok, really not up for getting into this tbh , I do get what you're saying but also admit to having a lot of difficulty around the whole thing of people abstaining instead of holding their noses if this were to be a close run election, which luckily it seems to not be by all predictions.
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Macron will almost certainly get in, and his policies will make the lives of ordinary French people much worse. By doing anything other than abstaining Mélenchon would be ensuring that virtually every political force other than the FN would be tainted by association with Macron.
 
I get that J Ed and am not suggesting he should've endorsed macron. Did feel happy when I saw his today's statement though.
 
redsquirrel said:
No, that's complete and utter rubbish. Either you haven't read the piece or you haven't understood it. She specifically criticises him FOR NOT ENDORSING Macron. Saying no to the FN is not good enough for her, you must argue for a vote for Macron, she even says

It is utterly clear that not voting for Le Pen is not what she is criticising.
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Bimble has a point. She does not even consider the option Melenchon subsequently went for. The piece's frothing is very clear, and she very clearly entirely misreads Melenchon when she says this bit: 'Yes, that’s right, he absolutely must have a collective debate about whether or not to endorse the candidate who has, as two of her closest advisers, associates of an unrepentant former SS member'. Um, no, he was never going to endorse Le Pen.

There are many layers of irony in that particularly stupid piece of writing - the way the author has misread Melenchon and entirely misses what he and his supporters stand for, which includes opposing the FN in a way the likes of Macron never have, is one of them.
 
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Whatever you think if her Le Pen's a damn site better politician than the orange twat.
Macron, who has appealed to a well-educated and well-employed electorate, is under growing pressure to prove he has understood the plight of working-class voters struggling after decades of mass unemployment. Poorer voters in small towns, de-industrialised and rural areas who are pessimistic about their future have flocked to his rival Le Pen.

But Macron’s visit to the Whirlpool tumble dryer factory that is threatened with closure was a risky endeavour and quickly turned to farce, as Le Pen secretly rushed to the factory gates in her heartlands to try to outdo him.
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redsquirrel said:
Whatever you think if her Le Pen's a damn site better politician than the orange twat.
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I've been watching the French news, and it's not how you think it is. Macron was visiting the town and to meet with the union in the morning and visit the factory in the afternoon. Le Pen made a surprise visit to the factory in the morning. It was clearly well-orchestrated, with a welcome party of FN members there to greet her. Le Pen spoke to the media but not, as far as I can tell, the strikers, saying that Macron was in town but why wasn't he visiting the factory? Of course, she knew very well that he was scheduled to visit in the afternoon. All this shows that the FN is very well-organised. So Macron turns up to chants of "Marine for President". I don't doubt that there is genuine support for her among the workers, but this was not spontaneous. This thing is, in spite of this reception, he gave a speech (which Le Pen didn't do - she stayed within a scrum of her supporters for the photo-op) and spoke to individual workers for an hour and a half. On a proper picket-line, with smoke blowing everywhere, no room to move and where there would have been nothing to stop anyone who just wanted to nut him from doing it.

I'm not going soft on Macron's politics or anything, but credit where it's due. There's no fucking way Tim Farron would have even got out of the car.
 


This set of talking heads is from before the first round of voting, but it's a good example of elite thinking - including a personal friend of Macron's who blames France's slippage in global education rankings on those pesky unions. An entirely ill-defined "liberty" and "innovation" are offered as a cure for the French condition.

Some interesting stuff on the Muslim community in France, if you can ignore the alarmist stuff about Halal food being unknown in the country 40 years ago.

Underneath all the ritual condemnation of Mme. Brony (did you know that she is both nationalist and socialist [sic]?) is a fear of a new left.

E2A: the talk is organized by this body:
Council for European Studies - Wikipedia

Also, I'm watching the Q&A - one guy is talking about his good friend George Osborne! These fucking people.

Coming to the end. The sociologist with the Muslim name is now in a big huff, because an American said maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you could have halal food in a school cafeteria. He's a fukcing idiot.

"There is a risk that people will say, 'you pretend I'm equal, but really I'm not, so I'll be myself'". Yeah, you should have thought of that before, pal.
 
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It is a real shame that Melenchon did not make it into the second round with Le Pen, that is what I was hoping for as that result would have all but guaranteed him winning the second round.

If I were a French voter I would now abstain, no way would I vote for either Macron or Le Pen.
 
Just to add re: that youtube thing I posted earlier. At one point someone says that while the French left always longed for revolution, the French right longed for the "providential man".

They cite Bonaparte and de Gaulle as examples of same - but surely their status as Macron fanboys puts them in the same bracket?
 
mather said:
It is a real shame that Melenchon did not make it into the second round with Le Pen, that is what I was hoping for as that result would have all but guaranteed him winning the second round.

If I were a French voter I would now abstain, no way would I vote for either Macron or Le Pen.
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Yes spoke to my French friends the other night, they say they, and their friends are drifting from holding their noses and voting Macron to abstaining.
 
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